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Author Topic: Black Point Compensation/Intent Options/Accurate Print Results  (Read 11144 times)
hacimd
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« on: September 20, 2010, 09:53:14 AM »
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I've heard a variety of opinions on Black Point Compensation, when and when not to use it.  I've also heard different things about choosing Relative or Perceptual Intent when printing.  When I run tests on files, sometimes these options make a difference and other times they do not.  Is there a basic set of rules for choosing these options?  I'm also looking for any other useful tips for getting as accurate print results as I can using the equipment that I have( I hope to get a monitor that can be truly calibrated and color munki in the near future).  Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Currently, I am working on a 20" cinema display, printing to Epson 9800 printer, using Epson Papers and Epson profiles that are loaded on the Printer Driver
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 10:51:27 AM »
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I've heard a variety of opinions on Black Point Compensation, when and when not to use it. 

Always use it, period. It will either do nothing (because the profile is properly written) or it will fix mapping of source to destination black in cases it needs the fix.
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Andrew Rodney
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JeanMichel
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 12:21:46 PM »
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Hi,

Do yourself a favour and purchase and view "From Camera to Print" from this site. I have been printing in the darkroom for over 40 years and found that i had to learn a whole pile of stuff when switching to digital printing, this video from Reichmann and Schewe was and is very useful even for an experienced digital printer.

Jean-Michel
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solardarkroom.com
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 03:08:34 PM »
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I'll second that! It's the best money I ever spent and it's so well indexed that just recently I needed to check something I'd forgotten and found the answer in seconds. There's a section where Jeff Schewe creates a preset in the Photoshop color management dialog box and I literally just copied it switch by switch. His soft proofing technique is also of great value for getting every last drop of goodness out of your prints.
If you don't mind loud shirts and bad puns you stand to learn a great deal. Personally I think their light-hearted banter makes the process more enjoyable than other tutorials I've seen.
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hacimd
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 02:18:32 PM »
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Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond!  I'll look into "From Camera to Print".
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 11:04:09 PM »
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Hi,

I second everything said. Regarding perceptual vs. Relative, I think that relative is preferable for "correct color" while perceptual shifts colors around a bit to be able to handle out of gamut colors better. I also have the impression that perceptual is a bit vendor specific. Best way to check is using Softproof. There is a nice discussion of Jeff Schewes method of softproofing in the From Camera to Print video from LL.

Best regards
Erik

I've heard a variety of opinions on Black Point Compensation, when and when not to use it.  I've also heard different things about choosing Relative or Perceptual Intent when printing.  When I run tests on files, sometimes these options make a difference and other times they do not.  Is there a basic set of rules for choosing these options?  I'm also looking for any other useful tips for getting as accurate print results as I can using the equipment that I have( I hope to get a monitor that can be truly calibrated and color munki in the near future).  Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Currently, I am working on a 20" cinema display, printing to Epson 9800 printer, using Epson Papers and Epson profiles that are loaded on the Printer Driver
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bernhardAS
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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2010, 01:01:11 AM »
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Hi Hacimd,

It is a good thing to know what the different options mean in a technical way. In my expirience however there is no "correct" setting. I always cycle through the options when softproofing the picture before printing.

I have so far honestly not found out any pattern or even rule of thumb why (from a purely aesthetic point of view) some options seem to work better than others for individual pictures.  I seem to end up with Black Point Compensation on for over 90% of the Pictures.


BernhardAS
 





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NikoJorj
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2010, 03:18:25 AM »
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I'd also second that :
- leave BPC always on,
- for Perceptive vs. Relative vs. the rest, it's not a question of accuracy but a question of rendering, and you always have to make a choice depending on your vision and preferences, softproofing the particular image you're working on,
- the From camera to print tutorial can teach you that and the rest.

To make accurate prints, apart from the simple "basic" settings (manage color in PS/LR and beat the printer with a stick until it gets its hands out of the picture), imho the main thing is in the display (and learn the unavoidable differences between a backlit monitor -made a nice lapsus clavis typing minotor Grin- and a reflective print) : you'll have to calibrate it (not too bright, right white point) and profile it.
Canned profiles can be quite good, to a point you may not do much better with a basic spectro (or may). It may be more effective (but less convenient) to have custom profiles built by a specialist with a top notch hardware anyway.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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hacimd
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 11:40:32 AM »
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So, I now have EIZO E120 Color Edge monitor and Color Munki Photo.  The profiles that I have created appear to be very dark, the colors don't seem totally off, but the white areas have a intense cyan cast.  This looks much different then what I am seeing during soft proofing, which leads me to believe that it's a print option that I am/not choosing.  I've tried to optimize the print profile that I created, but got a similar result.  Maybe someone would recognize an incorrect step that I have taken.

First off, I'm working in a fairly dark room, similar to a movie theatre while you are waiting for previews(this was the recommendation on the Munki tutorial) with no direct light on the screen.  For Screen Calibration, I chose LCD monitor, Advanced, Luminance Level 120(?!), Target White PT. D65(Default), I measured the Ambient Light at 33.05 LUX and adjusted the Display to the reccomendation of 80.00

The print profile was created for an Epson 9800 Printer and I followed the Color Munki steps as they recommended.  The file is from a 4x5 negative, scanned on a Flextight x5.

Print steps- Within 1998 color settings, I Allow Photoshop to manage colors, apply Color Munki Profile that I created for the specific Epson Premium Luster 260 paper,  Black Point Compensation checked, Perceptual Intent, no color management.  .  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  Many Thanks
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hacimd
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 11:42:12 AM »
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forgot to mention, that the image color_issue_01.jpg is a scan of the test strip I had printed.  Color_issue_orig.jpg is a small version of the file.  Thanks!
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digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 11:46:26 AM »
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First thing to do is examine the Munki software preferences and ensure V2 profiles are being generated, not V4.
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Andrew Rodney
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hacimd
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 11:52:39 AM »
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digitaldog-
thanks for the quick response.  It was in fact on version 4.  Should I create new printer and display profiles with these settings?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 11:58:17 AM »
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digitaldog-
thanks for the quick response.  It was in fact on version 4.  Should I create new printer and display profiles with these settings?

You should.
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Andrew Rodney
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hacimd
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 08:29:30 AM »
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Digi Dog, thanks so much! That was the solution.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2010, 12:00:17 AM »
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Hi,

I got the impression that Mac OS/X doesn't handle V4 profiles properly. Latest versions of Color Munki software have V2 as default on the Mac.

Best regards
Erik


First thing to do is examine the Munki software preferences and ensure V2 profiles are being generated, not V4.
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russpears
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 10:10:47 AM »
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If I use a levels or curves adjustment in Photoshop to set a 240 black point and a 7 white point for my print, then set Photoshop to management color in my print dialogue with a black point compensation. Will this help or hurt to results? And if your right, should I stop setting the black and white point in my printing.
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