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Author Topic: New Phase Camera Body, Back and Programs in the Works...  (Read 17027 times)
KLaban
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« Reply #100 on: October 15, 2010, 04:47:17 PM »
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Here's a question, and maybe we should do a poll to find the answer. How many people here would be willing to pay, say, $50 per year to be a member of a tightly regulated online community that would cater to strictly the full time photographer?

I already do.
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pcunite
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« Reply #101 on: October 15, 2010, 04:47:46 PM »
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Here's a question, and maybe we should do a poll to find the answer. How many people here would be willing to pay, say, $50 per year to be a member of a tightly regulated online community that would cater to strictly the full time photographer?

I would gladly pay that *if* the forum was filled with persons like yourself, I had protection from the public in certain categories, and other members truly shared new work weekly. Kindness was legislated, we had a real critiquing section. Cool stuff could happen like... imagine I get an offer from an ad agency that turns me down, I could alert others. You know, a real team of photographers across the globe who are not paid patsies by gear manufactures.

$50 is worth it to be to learn and grow in a safe environment, not filled with newbs, or potential clients. I know that sounds conflicting. I am referring to growing to the next level, refining my talent. I want advice from people who really know what they are doing and don't have agendas. We all get new ideas that we can apply to our local markets.

I'm pretty scared to show some of my really creative work and ideas for fear it will just get ripped off. If a safe environment, 'Joe' poster could say "Hey PC, mind if I use your idea like this for this ad? I will change it around like so". And I will be like "cool, Joe, yeah I love your work, make some money over there in LA with that. don't forget to flag the left side cause it was doing this and that for me."
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 04:52:58 PM by pcunite » Logged
pcunite
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« Reply #102 on: October 15, 2010, 04:48:24 PM »
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I already do.

Which one?
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KLaban
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« Reply #103 on: October 15, 2010, 04:55:46 PM »
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Which one?

http://www.pro-imaging.org/
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rogan
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« Reply #104 on: October 15, 2010, 05:54:12 PM »
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I don't know if it would be possible, or even permissible by the community... just thinking out loud here...

I would like to see a forum/website that to be a member you must use your real name, have a website, and to be allowed to join one must pass entrance by member voting. What brand of camera is irrelevant. Most discussions would be about finding talent, assistants, getting new work, image critic. A real club of people dedicated to helping each other. It might only be 2,000 people, but the best in the industry. Non-photographers (guests who are browsing) are not allowed to view certain sections of the site.

Never would a person feel unwelcome because they are not doing much work, or can't afford this or that. All based on talent for entrance. The cool thing? All haters would be left out, gear discussions would be realistic, and best of all new ideas for your particular market, which does not hurt others, could be shared.

Forums like DPreivew, LL, POTN, have good people present, but there is a real fear to come forward by some professionals because of all the haters present. That is why I keep myself anonymous. I produce new work every week, but I don't want a bunch of bozos commenting on the imagery and it getting back to the client. Sometimes the work I do is very much like Kirk Tuck's for example, not really all that glamorous but I would like to share and find like minded people to chat with. I would like to ask real questions on gear for specific situations and know I am not going to get a dealer or shill, or worse amateur telling me I need to spend $30K to get to the next level to take care of my client. I'm an artist after all, not a scientist, but $30K is not the answer for improving an image and getting more work.

great idea but it will never work.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #105 on: October 15, 2010, 06:49:27 PM »
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Keith, I visited your website tonight and discovered some of the new ones. Really really good! Beautifull works.
I really enjoy so much beauty on abandoned places, there is a very delicate and refine approach in your visual world and at the same time, I see action, in the sense that you have to reach those places, find them like a (pacific) hunter. There is instinct and beauty. That makes me thing about a balance between Hermes and Afrodite. I like when opposite forces are combined into one element.
Congrats.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 06:57:02 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #106 on: October 15, 2010, 06:55:33 PM »
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I am close to just giving up on all this online forum non-sense.

I think you should. Considering you've only participated with about 150 messages since you joined in Oct 2008, I don't think this forum is for you. You seem way over the top regarding your privacy...and to be an anonymous member of this forum precludes you from full participation. Why did you even post in this thread? You want "members" to "vote" on whether or not somebody can join your friggin' club? Really? Are you serious? That's not a club I would want to be involved in (you prolly wouldn't vote me in anyway-what's the quote: I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me?)

You might as well go back to the lurking you were doing...(funny how you seem compelled to look though-kinda like looking at an accident on the highway).
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #107 on: October 15, 2010, 09:29:11 PM »
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Well Guy, you eyesight must be outstanding then.
Mine is assessed as perfect each time I test it, but yet when I did compare the quality of focus I achieved with naked eyes vs live view using a Zeiss100mm f2.0 at f6.3 for subjects located 100-200 meters away from me, I see a clear difference of average sharpness over 10 frames. This is not a belief, it is a fact for me.
If you did the test also in the context of your needs and couldn't see any difference, then you don't need live view. I wonder if all the photographers who claim they don't need the capability actually did this test or not.
To my eyes, this difference is about the same I see when using the best DSLR lens compared to an average one, both used at optimal aperture.
It is also similar to the difference in sharpness I see when using a best in class tripod as is vs using it weighted down with a 5kg load.
Cheers,
Bernard


Your point on the benefits of Live View is well taken Bernard.

I don't think there's any type of photography that augments even the slightest degree of out-of-focus like macrophotography. Oftentimes, with a live moving subject, I have to hand-hold my macros ... and my focus % is always at its lowest here.

At other times I have used a tripod and focused manually (without Live View)--but I have found that because of the tiny, tiny details of insects and the like (which have features that I can't even see with my naked eye), I still miss perfect focus many times, simply because I cannot fully-see the intricate details of these creatures, until after-the-fact and they're blown-up on my computer monitor.

However, when I use a tripod, a remote shutter release, and Live View (which allows me to blow-up my subject 400% and really see its intricate details to a degree I simply CAN'T with my naked eye) ... and only then do I focus ... my photographs ALWAYS come out sharper and better than they do trying to use my naked eye alone. Always.

I agree with your conjecture, that people who downplay Live View either (1) don't require critically-precise focus and/or (2) have never actually used Live View to where they can magnify their subects and then focus.

I strongly believe that no one who has ever actually done this could possibly argue against the benefits of Live View,

Jack




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« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 09:32:33 PM by John Koerner » Logged
David Watson
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« Reply #108 on: October 16, 2010, 02:25:11 AM »
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Thank you Mr Schewe for saying what many of us probably feel. 

While I am saying that can I also remind pcunite that this is a thread on medium format "gear" which given his rabid opinions he should not even be reading.

Anyway where would we (and our professional equipment suppliers) be without the large number of photographers (and yes many of them are not professionals) who can afford and are happy to keep buying the latest so-called gear.
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David Watson ARPS
KLaban
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« Reply #109 on: October 16, 2010, 03:04:12 AM »
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snip...

I really enjoy so much beauty on abandoned places, there is a very delicate and refine approach in your visual world and at the same time, I see action, in the sense that you have to reach those places, find them like a (pacific) hunter...

Fred, once again, thanks for your kind words, much appreciated.

There's nothing I love more than arriving at a one horse - or more likely a one donkey - town, and having the anticipation of not knowing what's around the next corner.

The thrill of the chase!
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Rob C
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« Reply #110 on: October 16, 2010, 03:37:13 AM »
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I think it's a dream.

The site you think you want (pcunite) already existed: it was formed by another photographer and myself some years ago, in disgust at the way things were going in a site where we previously spent much time. Membership was only by invitation; there was probably no way anyone could just stumble into it.

And you know what? It still didn't work.

You simply cannot legislate for personality. Even people who actually admire one another's work can't see eye-to-eye on major psychological issues that never occur in one's imagination at the moment of extending the magical invitation. Further, the increase of numbers/membership isn't that easy to achieve; you certainly do need a critical mass, which is why LuLa functions as it does; the group we started never did grow very much: who the hell do you know to invite? In my own experience, photographers do not know many other photographers. The reason is simple: we hold hands when we do in order to stop the other guy from picking our pocket. Good relationships only happen with people in different disciplines and in different countries.

Time. Few working guys have it to spare. If they did, they would be better served chasing work rather than sitting at the keyboard moaning about the state of the world. I am a dinosaur; I have been told this and it must be my turn to accept that things change and are going down the tubes. They always were, ever since '60 when I discovered this world, only now the acceleration has gone like gravity: 32ft/sec/sec squared!

Worse, the economy has gone south faster than the photographers! The economy might recover - or not - but a sunken snapper is dead. At  least, he should have discovered that the life isn't for him or he would still be alive, metaphorically speaking.

Stay happy with what you've got here. Some really great people and intelligent conversation if you give it too.

Rob C
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KLaban
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« Reply #111 on: October 16, 2010, 03:56:16 AM »
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I think it's a dream.

big snip...

Stay happy with what you've got here. Some really great people and intelligent conversation if you give it too.

Rob, I think those two sentences sum it up nicely.

Exclusive lists do exist and can work, but they are generally exclusive for different reasons to those proposed here.

Folk will never be in agreement or harmonious on a list that is as broad as Luminous Landscape, but that's half the fun, life would be all the poorer if we were all the same.
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BJNY
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« Reply #112 on: October 16, 2010, 05:13:46 AM »
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They're instituting real name policy at http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27544
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Guillermo
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« Reply #113 on: October 16, 2010, 06:19:24 AM »
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I belong to a number of other discussion forums not related to photography and they all have two things in common.

1. I can count on one hand (even after the horrific table saw "incident") the number of times there have been flame wars or personal attacks.

2. They have a real name requirement to join.
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KLaban
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« Reply #114 on: October 16, 2010, 06:34:33 AM »
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If I remember correctly the owners have said that LL will have a real name requirement in the near future.

Personally I'd welcome it.
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eronald
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« Reply #115 on: October 16, 2010, 07:32:22 AM »
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WAHAHAHA ... I got a PM *here* some member of this forum once telling me that I had been blackballed for some private forum Smiley
Why should I join a forum whose members PM me in such a way?

And most of us here have got banned from at least one of the big public forums for our debating style.

I think the whole point of public debate is that it is public. If someone wants to come here and tell me that I don't know sh*t about color, bravo, bring him on maybe he'ssl teach me something. If someone wants to post interesting images of amazonian ants here, please, let him do it, maybe it will inspire me. If someone wants to gush about Man Ray's surrealistic imagery, no problem.

Surprises, welcome!

Edmund
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Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
pcunite
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« Reply #116 on: October 16, 2010, 08:38:02 AM »
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A real name requirement is a good thing, but not without getting something back. Internet searching and a photographer's name are one and the same. I was just expressing my ideas aloud, it would probably never work, not without a huge grassroots effort.

I was just checking out the PODAS website, I thought it was funny how they always show themselves next to the camera, holding the camera, pictures of the camera. That is the new culture... defined by gear. At first I thought this was all about quality, but after looking at PODAS, I realize it is about money, and those who can spend it on veblen without thought to their business. I have always avoided MFD because of the workflow and cost. Others are buying for that very reason alone.
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KLaban
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« Reply #117 on: October 16, 2010, 10:31:41 AM »
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Yup, but this is nothing new, cameras have been veblen goods for years. For some folk purchase has nothing to do with business and very little to do with photography. There are those out there who buy these veblen goods to take pics of their other veblen goods!

Different world.
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bradleygibson
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« Reply #118 on: October 16, 2010, 10:57:56 AM »
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I was just checking out the PODAS website, I thought it was funny how they always show themselves next to the camera, holding the camera, pictures of the camera. That is the new culture... defined by gear.

Hmm...  Did you found it funny, or threatening perhaps?

Rephrasing what Rob and others have said, there's really only one way to have a forum without any disagreement or conflict--and that's a forum of one.

I guess I'm not clear why it bothers *you* if a some group of people choose to show off their gear.  Who cares if the PODAS photographers photographed themselves naked in a bathtub, writhing, covered in their own gear, slathered in oil??  (Ok, truth be told, that probably would be rather unsettling, but that's a whole 'nother discussion Smiley -- apologies to everyone for that visual...)

If that's not what you're about, I would humbly suggest moving on--to be blunt, if you don't like gear discussions, don't participate in gear discussions!!  I hope you are not suggestiong that there aren't any other discussions going on--there are many, many illuminating conversations on a huge variety of topics, it's not all just about "gear".  

There is some irony in the statement I am about to make, but I'll make it anyway: The idea that everyone else I interact with should agree with my world-view is, to my mind, all too prevalent these days.  Why not welcome other perspectives, and on those viewpoints you disagree with, give them as much airtime as you feel they are due (maybe none, maybe some), and move on, possibly enlightened, certainly informed, but hopefully without the feeling that there is a need to have those other perspectives segregated or suppressed.  

I just don't think you're going to succeed at filtering out the rest of the world's opinions, unless it's not really a community you're after.

Just my 0.02,
-Brad
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 11:06:32 AM by bradleygibson » Logged

KLaban
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« Reply #119 on: October 16, 2010, 12:37:44 PM »
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Hmm...  Did you found it funny, or threatening perhaps?

big snip...

Hmm... I'm not pcunite and can't answer for him. Personally speaking I found it neither funny nor threatening, but there again why on earth would I?

What I did find was my photographic nightmare.

Thankfully we are all different.
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