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Author Topic: Require 12 ft print, digital or 8x10 film?  (Read 9434 times)
HarperPhotos
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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2010, 05:10:00 AM »
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Gidday,

This is a shot which was turned into a 25 metre billboard in Auckland taken with a Nikon D3X cropped.

Cheers

Simon
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JdeV
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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2010, 05:23:40 AM »
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Apologies in advance if this upsets anyone but if you shoot on single or even pairs of sheets of 8" x 10" rather than large numbers of stitched frames it is likely you will take a better picture. When shooting a single frame one can shoot at the decisive moment, (yes, even with supposedly 'static' subjects). The decisive moment properly encompasses also sorts of nice chance stuff, it is not a question of compositing a large number of elements into an attractive arrangement.

Your composition with one or two frames is also likely to be superior. In my own experience, and from looking at the work of others, stitching mostly tends to yield rather dull and obvious compositions.

Both of these issues are greatly compounded by stitching with a very large numbers of frames.

However, in large measure the appropriate technique for you should reflect your present area of greatest expertise. Neither 8" x 10" nor large-scale stitching come easy.

Others have recommended scanners. I vote for these guys. They did great work scanning 5" x 4" Portra NC for a campaign I shot in NY this summer.

http://www.drumscanning.com/about.html
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KevinA
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« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2010, 01:04:19 PM »
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I do agree that the Seitz would be a really cool choice, IF you can rent one.  (TY for that info Graham - I had never seen one before). OP said he already had an 8 x 10 and Canon DSLR'S ...I was just thinking between the two I would shoot film in this case.

I think Teamwork still have a demo one for sale, I was nearly tempted with it some months back http://www.teamworkphoto.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=76_485

Kevin.
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Kevin.
Harold Clark
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« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2010, 04:24:22 PM »
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Thanks to everybody for all the helpful suggestions re this project. I am leaning towards 8x10, since I have the technology. Drum scans aren't as available as a few years ago, but there are several labs available in the Toronto area, where I am located.

The multi image digital stitch is interesting, but I don't have experience with that yet although I plan to practice
this method for the future. After discussing this further with the client re technical requirements, I will make a final decision. I was visiting a friend last evening who had a10 ft print from a cropped 5x7 and that looked pretty good, so 5x7 may be sufficient and is more user friendly.

I will report back when finished and let everybody know how it went.

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KevinA
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2010, 08:07:37 PM »
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I do aerials and I just had a request from a client to do a shoot. I quoted my normal rate for the job as it was a sales brochure. Then out of the blue they added "we need to make a 6meter by 10 meter print will this cause any technical problems? we had one done before". I was somewhat taken aback by the request and wanted more details like how it was to be viewed etc. I shoot Canon 1DsmkIII and was thinking I would need to hire in something exotic. I asked the question of my client to ask his client could they tell me from the exif what camera was used before.
The answers came back, we need to view it up close the last one was really good and it was shot on a Eos 1DsmkIII.
I wonder when going this big how much difference something like a P45 or bigger makes, the difference in enlargement  is not that great over a 35mm, I would think the advantage shows more on a 1 meter enlargement more than something where both systems are well beyond their native file size.
Anyway to be sure I will shoot with the 35mm f1.4 with the intention of stitching a few together.

Kevin.
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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2010, 08:56:48 PM »
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A Canon dslr file doesnt compare to a P45 period, anyone who thinks it does is kidding themselves - both are outstanding but the P45 file will be better - question is do you need it ?
I also shoot aerials and I may favor the canon because if you are going to stitch FPS will matter, the less you move between frames the better and the P45 wont shoot as fast as the canon. What is the viewing distance the client expects ?  That is a pretty huge print if they plan on pixel peepin !  I would use a Gyro as well, it makes a world of difference in the sharpness and number of keepers. sounds like a nice job though love to see the end result !

Regards

Dennis

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KevinA
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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2010, 01:09:00 PM »
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I use a gyro when needed. Don't get me wrong I am sure a P45 is better but when going to huge sizes both will need a lot of interpolation and maybe then the difference is not as big as say a 2 meter print. I will shoot with as the 35mm f1.4 lens it's about the sharpest lens I have ever owned on any format.
The big problem with this job is it's looking South, not ideal at anytime of year but worse now.

Kevin.
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Harold Clark
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2010, 10:59:56 AM »
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I have an assignment to photograph a bridge at dusk which will require final output of a 12 ft ( 4 meter ) long print. I have often stitched a few frames from my Canons ( 16 & 21MP ) but nothing near the number that would be required for this amount of resolution. Any advice from the multi frame stitchers out there? I could also shoot 8x10 film. I don't have any MF digital equipment.

The project is finally complete. I rented a hasselblad 39MP, and with the 80mm lens did a 7 frame panorama ( camera vertical ) with lots of overlap. This resulted in a 100MP raw file. Exposure times ran 23 seconds @ f8

The print has now grown to 18 ft, I did a very quick up rez to final output size in photoshop and printed an 8x10 section. I am very pleased with how much detail is there. Thanks to everybody for their recommendations.

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Abdulrahman Aljabri
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2010, 12:16:26 PM »
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The project is finally complete. I rented a hasselblad 39MP, and with the 80mm lens did a 7 frame panorama ( camera vertical ) with lots of overlap. This resulted in a 100MP raw file. Exposure times ran 23 seconds @ f8

The print has now grown to 18 ft, I did a very quick up rez to final output size in photoshop and printed an 8x10 section. I am very pleased with how much detail is there. Thanks to everybody for their recommendations.



This is very nice, the patch on the right lower corner looks odd though.
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Abdulrahman Aljabri
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2010, 12:17:35 PM »
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Why shoot film? The Seitz has a capture time of 1 second and 11 bits of dynamic range (you'd have to ask how many frames per minute it can handle but I bet it's a lot more than 8x10 film!) No worrying about whether you have the shot, no scanning issues, etc. I'd definitely try to rent one.

Sample from the Seitz site:



This is very beautiful Graham, how did you process this picture, HDR?

EDIT: I was confused and thought this was your photo. 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 09:14:11 PM by Abdulrahman Aljabri » Logged

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Harold Clark
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« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2010, 12:39:48 PM »
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This is very nice, the patch on the right lower corner looks odd though.

Good observation, this is a quick jpeg, I goofed with the clone stamp and replicated one of the rocks.
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2010, 02:30:44 PM »
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Why shoot film? The Seitz has a capture time of 1 second and 11 bits of dynamic range (you'd have to ask how many frames per minute it can handle but I bet it's a lot more than 8x10 film!) No worrying about whether you have the shot, no scanning issues, etc. I'd definitely try to rent one.

Sample from the Seitz site:


Have Seitz still not made the 6*17 view camera back to allow correction of verticals?

I have seen better pictures of this scene.
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bradleygibson
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2010, 02:53:09 PM »
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Looking back, I think I'd prefer to drum scan neg than try to stitch that many images again.

Chris is quite right that if your job requires multiple rows of stitches the number of seams to match goes way up.  Depending on your content, this may be a non-issue, but in many cases, it is a lot of work to get right.  If you require a wide but narrow image that can be done with a single row of stitching, that becomes much more straighforward.

If you're not afraid of a little touch-up work, you also might want to look at the GigaPan.  I've not used it personally, so I can't vouch for it, but I've met and talked with a two or three happy owners.  http://gigapansystems.com/gigapan-epic-pro-product-page.html.
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Abdulrahman Aljabri
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2010, 09:14:54 PM »
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I have seen better pictures of this scene.


Can you post a link, I would love to see it.
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ghaynes754
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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2010, 10:11:00 PM »
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Dick, when are we going to see some of YOUR pictures?
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ondebanks
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« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2010, 04:19:06 AM »
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The big problem with this job is it's looking South, not ideal at anytime of year but worse now.

Kevin.

Depends on whether you're north or south of the equator, doesn't it?  Wink
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ondebanks
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« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2010, 04:21:24 AM »
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The project is finally complete. I rented a hasselblad 39MP, and with the 80mm lens did a 7 frame panorama ( camera vertical ) with lots of overlap. This resulted in a 100MP raw file. Exposure times ran 23 seconds @ f8

The print has now grown to 18 ft, I did a very quick up rez to final output size in photoshop and printed an 8x10 section. I am very pleased with how much detail is there. Thanks to everybody for their recommendations.



That came out really nice!

23 seconds is an odd number (literally and metaphorically)...just wondering, how'd you end up with that?
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2010, 04:42:52 AM »
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Dick, when are we going to see some of YOUR pictures?
I have already posted a picture this week, but only to demonstrate DOF.

I had my open cholecystectomy (gall bladder removal) six months ago, and I am now physically able to contemplate getting out there and taking some pictures.

This last month I have had to clear 2 houses and help organize a party for 50, and I have regretted not being able to find the time and energy to get out there and get some pictures of the autumn colours.

I now now received my H4D-60, but unfortunately it is not capable of working with flash with view cameras - I hope this will be rectified soon.

I have been accumulating Sinar kit from eBay for many years, and I am now within (hopefully) weeks of getting a Sinar digital system together, with daylight live view.

I had thought that I would buy a cheap second-hand Hasselblad back as a backup, but I am now thinking of getting a system that complements the Hasselblad.

The H4D-60 should have been able to make a good job of the bridge in single-row pan-and-stitch mode, and there would probably not have been enough image circle to do it shift and stitch with an Apo-Digitar.

There are techniques I want to use that need electronic shutters on view cameras and the Sinar eShutters should be available in a few weeks.

I want to concentrate on what you cannot do with a DSLR, but a "point-and-shoot-adapter" comes with Hasselblad H4s, so I have a DSLR...

This picture was a lens assessment shot, using my 300mm (on a demo H4D-60) at a Hasselbuddy (UK) event. I moved sideways to get cross-lighting on her cleavage, and lost the background. There was only one light available, and it was so low-powered I had to use 400 ISO for f16 for DOF (I have 4 Elinchrome 1500s). Focusing on her neck put her face slightly off the PSF, and kept the hair sharp. In a head shot I would use focus lock to soften the face, and not use the clever true-focus function.
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jduncan
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« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2010, 07:38:14 AM »
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I now now received my H4D-60, but unfortunately it is not capable of working with flash with view cameras - I hope this will be rectified soon.
Good that you are getting better. How complicated have been to Hasselblad the jump to Dalsa sensors. It is simply amazing /unexpected.
I hope when they release the next generation (looks like Kodak is on the high volume sensors only) the lessons learned help them smooth the ride. 

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Harold Clark
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« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2010, 07:44:57 AM »
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That came out really nice!

23 seconds is an odd number (literally and metaphorically)...just wondering, how'd you end up with that?

Thanks for your comments, the Hasselblad shutter speed choices were 16 seconds, then 23 etc. I am sure you could probably change the increments in the menu, but I am not overly familiar with the system and wanted to keep it simple.
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