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Author Topic: Sigma SD10  (Read 27419 times)
Lin Evans
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« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2004, 11:39:22 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']The SD9/SD10 have similar resolution chart readings to Nikon D100, Canon D60, 10D, 300D, etc., and in practical applications produce sharper pixel level detail having less roll-off. Since they have no antialiasing filter, their images are similar to a Kodak DCS-660 or 760 without its antialiasing filter.

The down side as far as image enlargeability is concerned is that when the subject material has geometric lines at other than 90, 45 or 180 degree angles, the 3.5 megapixel file array produces visible stair-stepping aliasing which is readily apparent in printed enlargements.

On the other hand, for landscape shots where the nature of the subject matter provides natural camouflage, the acutance is outstanding and the aliasing beyond Nyquist is perfectly acceptable because it's totally hidden.

In all, the image quality is extremely good within the constraints of ISO and subject matter.[/font]
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Lin
janus
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« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2004, 08:31:38 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Update:

new lesnes announced by Sigma (also available in other brand mounts)

MACRO 50mm F2.8 EX DG
at http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/news/50f28_exdg.html

MACRO 105mm F2.8 EX DG
at http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/news/105f28_exdg.html

And already earlier:

Exclusively Designed for use with digital SLR cameras and has 6.9 times high magnification zoom ratio(2004.5.21)
18-125mm F3.5-5.6 DC at
http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/news/...25f3556_dc.html

For all other new products and annoucnements see:
http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/

So far the news............[/font]
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Alf B.
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« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2004, 11:36:16 PM »
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Lin Evans wrote:

"Far from the best minds in Japan who create "adapters"  have given up on trying to make any EOS mount compatible with the SD9/SD10."

Well, in all fairness Lin, this is absolute rubbish.
Far from giving up they are still hotly persuing it, and here is the proof:
http://www.cameraunion.net/forum/showthrea...threadid=204099

Yes, a Big Canon EOS mount lens fitted to a Sigma SD9!!!...Then go to page two and see the lovely sample pics from a Sigma with Canon "L-glass"!!!......Kind of makes you weep, dont it?

 
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Erik M
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« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2004, 11:54:31 AM »
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Ray,

If you have no need for high ISO the lack of it is not a deficiency.  

Erik
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Erik M
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« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2004, 05:42:59 PM »
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>So we are left with only one positive, that I can think of - supposedly superior color rendition at low ISO's.<

Ray,

The Foveon chip doesn't have superior color rendition, if by rendition you mean the type of color pallette it outputs. The Foveon advantage is that the process by which color is measure in such a way that there is less resolution loss per pixel; hence you have a 3.4mp Foveon chip easily capturing more or less as much photographic optical detail as a 6MP Bayer. So if your goal is to capture as much pixel level detail as possible with a color measuring technique, Foveon succeeds on that narrow ground, and with no color moire to boot.

Erik
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Ray
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« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2004, 09:30:36 AM »
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Did you notice the blown out highlights in the photo of the Annapurnas, in the vertical column of white stone work about 1/3rd from the left of the frame?
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janus
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« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2004, 12:17:15 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']A new review of the SD10 at:

http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xPR-Sigma_SD10~RD-136884620932

(culled from the review:)
Photos posted at:

http://65.168.237.50/IMG00132_web.jpg , to give you the big picture... this is a small section Cropped at 200% 265K

http://65.168.237.50/IMG00132_crop.jpg , showing some of the droplets... and this is the Entire image at 200% 2.68 Megs

http://65.168.237.50/IMG00132_doubled.jpg , to show you how well these images scale.[/font]
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2004, 06:39:35 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Meanwhile I shoot happily with my 1Ds which has excellent color and far better detail than the SDwhatever. Your previous statements that the SD10 is anywhere close to being in the same league as the 1Ds resolutionwise are ludicrous, and if the review and examples were so unconvincing, why did you post a link to them? Don't get me wrong, the Sigmas are good 3MP cameras, far better than the Kodak DC4800 I used to have. But they're not the end-all and be-all of digital photography. Enough with the shill thing already.[/font]
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DaShiv
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« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2004, 03:45:44 AM »
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Can't speak for others, but I can't personally envision going with the SD10 because Sigma doesn't have my two current favorite lenses on their mount: the 85/1.2L and the 70-200 IS. The only conceivable other mount I might consider is using Nikon's 70-200 VR and 85/1.4 instead, but for that I'd have to think hard and fast about before giving up a half of stop on the 85. And I hear conflicting reports about how Nikon's VR stacks up against the newest-generation IS in the 70-200. And there's the cost involved with switching of course.

I own a DRebel and I'm not a huge fan of Canon's lower-end bodies (where the Sigma competes with them), but I really like their high-end glass. I think it's rare for someone to have minimal enough glass investment to try out the Sigma, while also being up-to-date enough to consider it as an option to begin with. The proprietary lens-mount system creates a bit of a feedback loop, with people going with Nikon/Canon because of marketing and then staying with them because of glass. I'm sure the SD10 would sell much better if they created Nikon-mount and Canon-mount versions (or even a 4/3 version) of it, instead of trying to promote their own mount.
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janus
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« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2004, 09:27:22 PM »
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I have been saying on other forums that Contax and Foveon would be ideal, as Contax needs to get back into this dslr market in order not to loose credibility.

Kodak goofed with their 14n, but if they make terribly good improvements, who's going to care? Likewise, if Contax does something right, they can rise above the muck the ND caused.

Also, their compact digital, the TVS-D needs to be improved to warrant that kind of price.
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Alf B.
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« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2004, 07:11:03 AM »
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You are again confusing "spacial information" for resolution.

Ok, if the three layers were all placed in the same plane like the layout of a Bayer sensor you would immediatly see that this results in a 10.2 megapixel size image with 10.2 megapixels of resolution data, yes?

By doing this the sensor size has increased by a factor of three, without the pixels being any larger so the sensitively is identical though its true that this would result in wider angle images taken with the same lens.
The image size has also increased by a factor of 3 and this results in the 8mb RAW files outputed by the Foveon increasing to about 64mb for no additional resolution advantage, which I am sure you would agree is totally pointless.
This would mean a 1gb CF card would only hold about 15 shots!!!
Now you should understand why the foveons smaller image size whilst still outputing very high resolotuion images is a massive advantage.

Alf B.
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Ray
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« Reply #71 on: February 17, 2004, 08:40:49 PM »
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Quote
Well, Sigma now has a OS lens (Optical Stabilizer) an 80-400.
Great start! I can't find any independent reviews and before I can make up my mind, I need to see a 10D shot at 400mm with IS and the same subject with the Sigma OS lens, at same aperture and shutter speed.

You can see the problem. If we're going to be truly objective about these issues, we need the results, the data. And we're not getting them.

I notice you haven't addressed the issue of dynamic range. Resolution and dynamic range are big issues with me. Tell me the dynamic range of the SD10 is better than that of the 10D and 1Ds, and my interest perks up.  Cheesy
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Ray
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« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2004, 08:44:55 AM »
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Quote
Why not post this question on dpreview's sigma forum?
The question's already been asked and the answers are not conclusive. Anyone can guess that the DR is around 6 stops or 7 stops or 8 stops, but the only meaningful statement would be in relation to a direct comparison such as, the DR of the SD10 is slightly greater than that of the 10D, or vice versa.

I've had a look at Imaging Resources' 'Comparator' at http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/CDISPLAY.HTM

It's unfortunate that Imaging Resources' images vary slightly. There's usually something that prevents one from making a really accurate comparison. The outdoor shots of the house might use a slightly different focal length lens, or one shot might be in summer and the other in winter.

However, my general impression is that the 10D a slight edge regarding DR, and that seems to be due to lower noise in the shadows in the 10D shots.
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Ray
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« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2004, 11:43:02 PM »
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Quote
A friend of mine has one, and he has shared his full res pictures with me, and it does NOT, I repeat does not, compare favorably to the SD10. The colors are not quite right with that Canon (greens are too Velvia like), and the images have that typical flat digital look.

Overall: very Dissimilar performance, not similar.
Janus,
It's very difficult to comment on such statements unless we know what RAW conversion processes were applied and what tweaks and adjustments were made at the time of conversion.

For example, some time ago in a discussion on Adobe CS RAW converter, someone made the comment that it wasn't colour accurate. The fact is, ARC has numerous adjustments that can be made at the time of conversion, including hue and saturation control for each primary color, brightness, contrast, tint and exposure compensation.

If the colors are not quite right, it's probably the fault of the user not the camera.

Sometimes one reads comments about a printer producing amazing results straight out of the box. Other folks might comment the same printer does not produce great results without considerable tweaking. There are so many variable factors, such statements have to be view with some suspicion, or at least caution.
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janus
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« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2004, 05:34:39 AM »
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The guy who runs http://www.d-shell.net sent me a video demonstrating that the Sigma SD10 can work electronically in very way with Canon lenses, but the change to an SD9 or SD10 would be permanent. I am not sure if he is currently doing to conversions for anyone.

There is nothing wrong by turning a digital camera into a manual focus and manual exposure picture machine. All you need is a lightmeter. You certainly save on battery power. For some people, including myself, it's just extremely enjoyable to be able to combine "analogue" with "digital" technology. The new RD1 by Epson is taking this route/approach as well.

http://www.i-love-epson.co.jp/products/pdf/rd1/index.htm
and
http://dp-now.com/archives/000677.html
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2004, 02:45:19 PM »
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Well, that means you're limited to shooting in bright sunlight, on a tripod, or using a flash. Most photographers find themselves periodically in shooting situations where a higher usable ISO is greatly desirable. Sports, weddings, street, and many other genres benefit greatly from having a usable high-ISO option available. X3 is a great idea, but it needs a far better implementation than the SD9/SD10 before I'd consider switching away from the 1Ds.
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janus
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« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2004, 02:53:47 PM »
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Some English, lots of Korean:

nicely done website, review of SD10


http://dizin.co.kr/dipeople/proreview/sd10/001.htm
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2004, 09:17:29 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']
Quote
A new review of the SD10 at:

http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xPR-Sigma_SD10~RD-136884620932

(culled from the review:)
Photos posted at:

http://65.168.237.50/IMG00132_web.jpg , to give you the big picture... this is a small section Cropped at 200% 265K

http://65.168.237.50/IMG00132_crop.jpg , showing some of the droplets... and this is the Entire image at 200% 2.68 Megs

http://65.168.237.50/IMG00132_doubled.jpg , to show you how well these images scale.
Who ever it was that wrote that review is quite clueless.[/font]
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #78 on: May 25, 2004, 10:00:08 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']I personaly haven't seen anything out there that shows the SDx can resolve an equal amount of detail that's capable with a 6mp DSLR and a sharp lens. Like I said before, it's more like 4.5-5mp in that regard.

If an image is under-exposed (even by half a stop) it produces some gnarly noise. Unfortunalty, this limits the usefullness of fill-light. Attempting to increase the DR of an image from the same RAW is out of the question.

I myself am a fan of the tech (big fan). It seems to have a great deal of potential, but as it is it doesn't hold up to what's currently out there. It's still in beta phase so to speak.

In the right conditions and with a proper exposure the SD10 can make some great quality images in front of a good photographer. But to say it hold it's own agianst any of the 6mp DSLR cameras is just obsurd.

For anyone who'd like to see for themselves the quality of the SD9/10 you can download the PP2 software and some X3F RAW files from the following sites:
http://www.x3f.info/sd9/v2_0/download.html
http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/sd10/english/gallery/
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/x3f_raw_files

I'm sure a Google search will net you even more.[/font]
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JJP
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« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2004, 05:23:05 AM »
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IMO, Sigma should manufacture the SD9/10 with Nikon & Canon mounts.  And why not, cause you can get their lenses with the same.  I don't understand why manufacturers seem so uptight when it comes to lens mounts.  I've got 4 EOS mount lenses (2 Sigmas, 1 Tamron 1 Canon) that I don't want to part with but I'd sure like to try them on the S3 for instance.  If it was up to me, there would be 1 universal camera mount for all.
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JJ
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