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Author Topic: Another bubble?  (Read 3510 times)
Justan
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« on: October 07, 2010, 08:36:02 AM »
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By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD
AP Business Writer

Gold prices hit a new record Wednesday and silver prices surged as investors bought up the precious metal to hedge against inflation.

Gold for December delivery rose $7.40 to settle at $1,347.7 an ounce Wednesday, breaking the record it hit the day before when it settled at $1,340.30. Silver prices also surged, with December silver rising 30.6 cents to settle at $23.043 an ounce.

Silver's surge reflected that metal's increasing popularity as a reserve investment, said Spencer Patton, founder and chief investment officer for hedge fund Steel Vine Investments, LP.

Silver used to be valued more for industrial uses, being a chief ingredient for electronic devices like iPods and computers. But nervous investors are pulling out of currency and buying up silver because of its status as a precious metal.

....

From: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2013089091_apuscommoditiesreview.html

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stamper
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2010, 10:02:21 AM »
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More madness in the world. In reality two worthless metals that unlike diamonds which have a practical and industrial use.  Huh
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Rob C
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 10:13:37 AM »
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Stamper - I assume you are being tongue-in-cheek?

Rob C
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stamper
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 11:16:54 AM »
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Nope. I think the world could survive without these two metals. The buying and selling of these only benefits the speculators. They look nice adorned to a person but there are substitutes for practical uses? This speculating will mean dearer commodities that is a problem in the world that is plagued by financial problems.  Roll Eyes
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2010, 12:23:41 PM »
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... I think the world could survive without these two metals...

Oh, sure... the world would also survive without, say, women wearing make-up, men playing ball, people drinking, etc, etc.... and yet the mankind has been indulging in those activities for millennia. The same goes for gold. And had it not been for gold, it would have been something else... sea shells, for instance... people found it necessary to have a common denominator for a store of value (among other things).
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Slobodan

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stamper
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 02:49:48 AM »
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You are correct. I don't know if the OP was happy with the news that he posted or unhappy, he didn't make it clear. Speculating in banking is now harder so they move to something else to make money and someone else will lose out. This kind of activity harms the great majority in the long run and as I pointed out it is in two commodities that aren't really needed. Unfortunately if someone goes to a jeweller to buy a ring for the better half they then find that the price has risen so they don't buy it. The jeweller loses money and the staff is laid off. All because of greedy speculation by a few that ultimately hurts the ordinary working guy. The world is on it's knees at the moment because of such activity. I hope the OP wasn't in favour of it. Possibly he is indulging in it.  Undecided   
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Rob C
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2010, 04:13:53 AM »
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Seems nobody wants to look  beyond the cosmetic.

Take gold, for a start: in Spain, you will see that just about every gypsy that crosses your palm path is festooned with gold; they glister! The same can be said for many societies that precede our western idea of banking - the banks can fail, but when you take it with you, you can only get killed for what you have, and then you don't give a toss.

Silver: I remember well that many women in India, admittedly the poor of which there are millions more than you can imagine, all wear the thickest silver anklets that they can buy. It is, again, their life savings, inheritance, whatever you want to call it , but it represents all they own in the world.

Then, think beyond bling and the social consciences that can make some resent that: Industry. You would have no mobile telephones, probably no digital cameras, none of those toys that depend on clean and non-corroding contacts, none of the technology that keeps you holiday flight airborne.

Finally, just ask yourself why, when things go wrong, gold becomes the refuge, the safe haven for government (citizens') resources? We of the UK would have been able to do the same thing, except that our dumbass socialist leader (when chancellor) sold off the stocks we had at the lowest price going - speculation really gone nuts! But who, apart from old guys like me, remembers anything?

And even  now, with a new colour of hybrid government, the same voting mass is unable and/or unwilling to accept that it is impossible to pay out more than you take in. France? Christ, they strike and think it helps!

Rob C
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pegelli
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 04:27:40 AM »
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Someone once said about gold:

I will not invest in it, we spend money digging it out of the ground and then spend more money putting the majority of it in vaults and guarding it. Why do we think it's valuable?
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pieter, aka pegelli
stamper
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 05:27:34 AM »
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Quote Rob

Then, think beyond bling and the social consciences that can make some resent that: Industry. You would have no mobile telephones, probably no digital cameras, none of those toys that depend on clean and non-corroding contacts, none of the technology that keeps you holiday flight airborne.

Unquote

I am not a metallurgist but surely there is another cheaper metal that can do the job other than silver?
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 06:33:52 AM »
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Quote Rob

Then, think beyond bling and the social consciences that can make some resent that: Industry. You would have no mobile telephones, probably no digital cameras, none of those toys that depend on clean and non-corroding contacts, none of the technology that keeps you holiday flight airborne.

Unquote

I am not a metallurgist but surely there is another cheaper metal that can do the job other than silver?

While I'm no metallurgist either, I believe both silver and gold are being referred to by Rob.  And without silver, there may have been no photography at all.  Let's not forget that.

All that aside, and leaving Rob's loosely made connection, what does this have to do with photography?  I know this is a more general forum area but really.....  Roll Eyes
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stamper
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 07:09:55 AM »
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Bob the clue is in the heading ......The Coffee Corner. If you wish to view photography content then you have to look eleswhere in the forum. Smiley Wink Grin
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RSL
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 09:02:12 AM »
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Interesting discussion in spite of the personal attacks. I spent yesterday shooting pictures up in the Cripple Creek gold mining region. Nowadays, instead of mining by digging holes in the ground we just remove the ground. Here's an example I shot from the American Eagle Overlook in a wind that was almost blowing me and my tripod off the mountain. A lot of this activity is an operation that uses cyanide to reprocess tailings from inefficient turn-of-the-century placer operations with hydraulic sluices that left an awful lot of gold behind in the tailings.
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BFoto
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 03:31:00 PM »
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Well as far as the diamond issue goes. Have you ever seen what debeers does when they find a vein of diamond. they blow up the tunnel and dig elsewhere for fear of saturating the market. Imagine if the real quantity hit the market - there would be no market, and women would change there desires to another stone that would result in different wars and conflicts.

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stamper
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2010, 03:24:26 AM »
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Interesting discussion in spite of the personal attacks.

Russ I would be interested to see what you consider to be personal attacks. Cool
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Justan
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2010, 07:43:07 AM »
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and yet the mankind has been indulging in those activities for millennia. The same goes for goldÖ.. people found it necessary to have a common denominator for a store of value (among other things).

I agree but historically gold has been subject to swings in value, even recently. http://www.sharelynx.com/chartsfixed/600yeargold.gif

Starting back in the 1960s the price was largely unchanging. Between 1970 and 1974 the price went from $41.xx to $183.xx. Between 1996 and 2001 the price dropped by about a 3rd. And between 2001 and now the value has climbed in a way that looks like the arc of a pole vaulter: http://www.onlygold.com/tutorialpages/prices200yrsfs.htm

But the thing is that there is no shortage of gold. Itís a regulated commodity, like gem stones, and subject to a number of market related influences. As the economy recovers and investors start dumping their gold related holdings in favor of something else, the value will likely decline. With history as a guide the drop will likely be a much bigger % than it did between 1996 and 2001.

Thatís why I'm wondering if itís a bubble. It sure walks and talks like one. In the end doesn't valuation in mass commodities work exactly like a ponzi scheme?
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RSL
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2010, 09:47:22 AM »
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Russ I would be interested to see what you consider to be personal attacks.)

Stamper, My apologies. That's what happens when I get in a rush. I had just been reading a "conversation" Jack was having with Slobodan on a different thread.
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2010, 10:55:57 AM »
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Stamper, My apologies. That's what happens when I get in a rush. I had just been reading a "conversation" Jack was having with Slobodan on a different thread.

It appears that not only are you having trouble remembering which thread is which but who initiated the "conversation" (attack) on whom.

Jack




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RSL
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2010, 11:07:12 AM »
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Okay, apology withdrawn.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2010, 06:21:36 AM »
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Justan, if it were truly a 'regulated' commodity, the price wouldn't be subject to market conditions.

Stamper, I know.  That's why I said I knew this was a more liberal area of the forum but this topic is really out there.
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stamper
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2010, 06:53:45 AM »
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Justan, if it were truly a 'regulated' commodity, the price wouldn't be subject to market conditions.

Stamper, I know.  That's why I said I knew this was a more liberal area of the forum but this topic is really out there.

You may have a point because Justan has failed to state why he posted this information. Huh
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