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Question: Can you spot  which files came from the Hasselblad H3D-50?
A C E - 2 (4.3%)
A D E - 7 (14.9%)
A D F - 5 (10.6%)
A C F - 1 (2.1%)
B C E - 3 (6.4%)
B D E - 6 (12.8%)
B D F - 4 (8.5%)
B C F - 4 (8.5%)
no idea, who cares? - 14 (29.8%)
all of them - 0 (0%)
none of them - 1 (2.1%)
Total Voters: 45

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Author Topic: Spot the Medium Format Files  (Read 11478 times)
bradleygibson
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« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2010, 09:54:53 AM »
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Are you serious? The reason that you got higher contrast at 11:1 is that sharpening is added to the Canon

Yes I'm serious--I'm just putting the question out there, as it seems to have been missed in the discussion.  FWIW, I happen to agree with your answer.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 09:57:10 AM by bradleygibson » Logged

bradleygibson
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« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2010, 09:55:50 AM »
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Additional biasing factor = Canon files look better? Just saying Wink

Smiley
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perjorgen
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« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2010, 12:03:34 PM »
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Yes I'm serious--I'm just putting the question out there, as it seems to have been missed in the discussion.  FWIW, I happen to agree with your answer.
So boiling it down (and blatantly putting words in your mouth - sorry)
  • If an equivalent post production (e.g. sharpening) was applied to the MF picture, there is a good chance that it would have been lost in the downsampling.
  • It seems that there are two ways the pictures has been evaluated 1. The prettiest picture with the highest impact which favors Canon 2. The most natural picture that preserves tonality and fine low contrast detail which favors Hasselblad
The argument, that MF files leave more room for manipulation doesn't really count for me. My shooting environment is very controlled, it just can't happen that I blow my highlights or kill the black.
If you don't need to adjust you pictures that much and the resolution from the Canon is good enough then I agree that MF is overkill. But being able to shot straight into the sun and still get something meaningful out of the rest of the picture makes it fun to shoot MF
Maybe I should disclose my workflow for these files:

Hasselblad: shot into Phocus, edited there to get the look I liked, exported to 16bit tiff, into lightroom.
Canon: shot into eos capture, edited in lightroom.

then I tweaked the colors to equalise them. I only used global adjustment and very little of that. downsampling and color space conversion by lightroom.
I think it would be more fair to let Lightroom do all the processing as it can read Hasselblad 3fr and Canon raw files
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 12:07:59 PM by perjorgen » Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2010, 12:32:07 PM »
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... It seems that there are two ways the pictures has been evaluated 1. The prettiest picture with the highest impact which favors Canon 2. The most natural picture that preserves tonality and fine low contrast detail which favors Hasselblad...

Just as side note: Kodak, for ten years, insisted on a similar logic against Velvia vs. Kodachromes and Ektachromes: the latter were simply more "natural", vs. Velvia's "unnaturally" exaggerated contrast and saturation. Kodak was of course right, colorimetric-wise, but wrong marketing-wise, as tons of people favored the "unnatural" look.
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Slobodan

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Nick-T
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« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2010, 03:17:23 PM »
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My favourite photographer here – now sadly AWOL – uses Canon, but I could care less, he’s just very good and would be very good whatever he used.

I'm not AWOL Keith, shooting with Canon and Hasselblad.

Nick-T
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KLaban
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« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2010, 04:10:00 PM »
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I'm not AWOL Keith, shooting with Canon and Hasselblad.

hahaha

Nick, you crack me up!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 04:12:42 PM by KLaban » Logged

ondebanks
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« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2010, 05:37:56 AM »
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I correctly grouped the frames into [ADE] and [BCF].  But I attributed each group to the wrong camera!

FWIW here were my observations as I examined the frames:

----------------

A: more colour-free details in the cleaver scratches; less blown knife highlights; whiter oof diffraction patterns
B: hot pixel in yellow background; chromatics on oof diffraction patterns

C: chroma noise, chromatics in oof diffraction patterns
D: speckly lumi noise, whiter oof diffraction patterns

E: more colour-free details in the sweets highlights; zero colour in white tablecloth texture; speckly lumi noise
F: more colour in oof diffraction patterns, sweets highlights & tablecloth texture

-> Hassy 50D= A, D, E ? [Wrong!!]

----------------

The interesting thing is that the Canon's optics had better chromatic correction (this shows regardless of the downsampling, sharpening etc.).
Sensor-wise, the H50D seems to have less luminance noise but more chroma noise (colour moire may explain this in the sharply focussed details, but it can't explain it in the oof regions).

Ray

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geesbert
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« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2010, 07:13:01 AM »
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The interesting thing is that the Canon's optics had better chromatic correction (this shows regardless of the downsampling, sharpening etc.).



I wasn't impressed by the HTS at all. the whole thing feels like one of those aftermarket solution (Mirex, Zoerk, Cambo) I tried with my Canon. It is much more wobbly than what I want for a lens. I think Hasselblad would have done better with a construction with dedicated lenses like the Arcbody.

The 90mm Tse is one of Canon's oldest EF lenses, it has been introduced nearly 20 years ago in 1991. It is still ok, but could be much better, seeing what the new 17Tse and 24Tse are capable of. I really hope a new one comes around, I expect it with the introduction of the 1DSmk4 next year.
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