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Author Topic: What is the difference of the new Epson 7890 and 7900?  (Read 23306 times)
Doombrain
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2010, 09:15:51 AM »
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The HDR inkset only uses the K inks, LC, LM and Y. not the O & G in Advance B&W mode. Same HTM as the K3 driver.

the point is if you run a business for quick and dirty prints there's now an option. 99% of these people won't spend the extra on a printer which was designed to hit spot colours when they can use a 8 colour and still get output with surpasses the customers expectations.
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gromit
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2010, 03:22:51 PM »
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The HDR inkset only uses the K inks, LC, LM and Y. not the O & G in Advance B&W mode.

Look again.
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Doombrain
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« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2010, 09:06:57 AM »
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You’re wrong, but that's not important or worth getting into a discussion about.
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Dano Steinhardt
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« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2010, 02:15:07 PM »
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My colleague at Epson America ran a test to confirm which inks are used in the ABW Mode with Ultrachrome HDR.

The test was done with the Default (no tone) setting and the Sepia setting.

The Attached Data Shows:
-The same number of inks are used in the Default (no tone) setting as with the Sepia setting.
-Orange and Green are not used.

One Note Back to the Original Question:
While Orange and Green are not used in the ABW Mode, I have seen color photographs, with a wide color gamut, that have benefited from the Orange and Green inks in the 7900/9900. 
Being from Epson its fair to point out some bias on my part, but the differences I've seen are most noticeable with PK vs MK and without exception files have been native Pro Photo RGB.

Dan (Dano) Steinhardt
Epson America
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Doombrain
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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2010, 03:37:25 PM »
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It's the same 2D LUT for ABW.

there's no doubt there's a benefit in having the O&G channels, less guess for for an ICC can only be a good thing.
It's my opinion is 90% of users in the photo/art markets will never hit the limits of the 7/9900 which is where the x890 comes in. K3VM is still an outstanding CcMmYK ink set.
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Dano Steinhardt
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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2010, 04:07:37 PM »
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Here is an enlarged version of the chart showing the ink usage with the ABW Mode
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gromit
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2010, 05:16:24 PM »
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The test was done with the Default (no tone) setting and the Sepia setting.

You wouldn't expect green to be added in Sepia mode when it's adding its opposite (magenta) to the mix. Try again with the Premium Lustre 260 media type on smooth surfaced paper,  set Vertical to 5, and examine the highlight areas with a high powered loupe. Looks like green to me.
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Schewe
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2010, 05:22:21 PM »
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Looks like green to me.

It ain't...

The colors that print in the ABW mode are; LLK, LK and either MK or PK depending on the media and Y, LC and VLM depending on the color toning. Not sure why you refuse to believe Dano. Will you believe me? No green, no orange, at all, ever, when printing in the ABW mode of the Epson driver.
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Farmer
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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2010, 05:33:27 PM »
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Looks can be deceiving, which is why Dano posted the data that he did.
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gromit
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2010, 08:53:50 PM »
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Looks can be deceiving, which is why Dano posted the data that he did.

I'll run a test again the next time I switch to PK. I had another close look with a loupe and maybe I'm mistaken. The dots are damn small! If not, it begs the question why Green isn't being used. Accelerated aging tests look promising for this colour.

While I'm here, I'd like to see ABW updated to something like the following. The current implementation has its limitations.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2010, 02:34:34 AM »
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It ain't...

The colors that print in the ABW mode are; LLK, LK and either MK or PK depending on the media and Y, LC and VLM depending on the color toning. Not sure why you refuse to believe Dano. Will you believe me? No green, no orange, at all, ever, when printing in the ABW mode of the Epson driver.

At least up to the 9800 range the ABW mode used color inks to create neutral B&W. I wouldn't call that toning. More in the highlights (up to 20%K) than over the rest of the range. I doubt that has changed in the new models given Dano's numbers. The monochrome inks are not neutral by themselves like on the HP Z models but warm. So sepia is created by removing LC, check the numbers in Dano's message.

Gromit didn't mention ABW mode for printing B&W in his first message. I wonder whether the color mode isn't using green and orange when printing neutral greys. There are more cons than pros for that though. The Wasatch Softrip driving HP Z3xx models shows RGB inks together with CMmY inks up to 60% K. when printing in color mode. No need for that at all with neutral monochrome inks, just a lousy N-color driver configuration and too little black generation. On the other hand toning images in B&W mode with the pigment that has the best fade resistance isn't a bad idea.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

spectral plots of +100 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm




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BruceHouston
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« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2010, 12:36:17 AM »
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This thread is very timely!

Today I received an announcement of the 4900 via email.  I have been away from photography for awhile and was surprised to see the proliferation of models in the Epson Pro line.  This thread was very helpful in coming up to speed.

Does the 4900 add any benefits over the 7900 other than smaller footprint and less cost?

Thanks,
Bruce
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Schewe
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2010, 10:44:56 AM »
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Does the 4900 add any benefits over the 7900 other than smaller footprint and less cost?

Well, other than the fact you can load a bunch of paper in the tray and spit out prints compared to sheet by sheet loading in the 7900, no. The inkset and dither is the same.
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Mussi_Spectraflow
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2010, 01:20:05 PM »
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The 4900 is a pretty slick little machine, and represents the consolidation of the new line. With the X900 representing the high end and the x890 representing the lower end line. I was a little surprised to see the X890 announced, but really I think Epson has to respond to the slew of technical printers offered by HP and Canon, and for the proofing, architectural markets, and certainly a number of photographers this will be a pretty compelling printer, and expect these to cannibalize a piece of the x900 market.
While I don't see the 4900 having any published features that would put it in a league above the 79/9900 it does represent a big leap forward. They showed this off at a dealer meeting in spring, and I think they really went back to the drawing board with this one, and while it shares the ink and heads with it's bigger brothers it's really a new machine. It uses new ink carts, and the size has changed to 200ml, and the carts are all now completely internal.  Also I expect that the false positive nozzle cleaning should be improved with this model. Also the fact they are offering a spectro with this is a really cool feature.
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Julian Mussi

Spectraflow, Color Workflow Solutions
www.Spectraflow.com
BruceHouston
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« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2010, 04:16:34 PM »
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Thank you, Jeff and Julian; very helpful.

Bruce
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2010, 04:34:02 PM »
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Also I expect that the false positive nozzle cleaning should be improved with this model.
Just curious as to the reason you believe this. Improved AID circuitry?  Did someone at Epson mention this?

Would certainly be nice if it were true (although my 7900 hardly ever triggers a clean now that it gets used on a daily basis).
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Doombrain
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2010, 11:11:20 AM »
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New design on the inking system, new capping assy, new AIDS sensor etc.
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Mussi_Spectraflow
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« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2010, 02:15:11 PM »
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Different system components. The degree to which they offer improvements over the 9900 will be shown when the 4900 hits the street. The AID issues have been discussed with some key individuals at Epson and at dealer meetings and Epson has conveyed that they are doing a number of things to improve it. Some adjustments have already been implemented in firmware fixes.
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Julian Mussi

Spectraflow, Color Workflow Solutions
www.Spectraflow.com
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