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Author Topic: Pricing on "Travels to the edge."  (Read 6974 times)
Craig Arnold
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« on: October 12, 2010, 02:57:54 AM »
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Now I don't believe there's any such thing as "overpriced" exactly, when someone says something is overpriced they are either:

1. Bemoaning the fact that they are at a place on the demand curve below where the supply curve crosses it.
2. Commenting on relative value compared to other products.

So just for the feedback I wanted to say that:

1. Like Ferraris or MFDBs my place on the demand curve falls far below the selling price, even though I would like to watch the videos.
2. You might want to consider that the sale price for episodes of TV on iTunes, etc is below $5 per episode, even for very current shows with high production values. You can buy a whole season of most shows on DVD or iTunes for around $15-$20. At $10 per episode x 26 = $260 !!

So if you wanted a little bit of market research - I would probably have been happy to pay up to around $35 for the series, or $1.50 - $2.00 per episode if I wasn't going to buy all of them. I expect you would maximise your profit stream at a much lower per-episode cost.

Anyway, I hope your sales go well, but I imagine many people will feel as I do, that the current price is simply too high. For those who are able to easily afford the purchase I hope the show is as good as it looks.

This is absolutely not meant to be a bashing thread, and I would be very disappointed if anyone took it as such.


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antwer
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 03:46:00 AM »
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I second that. I think that the pricing is pretty accurate for educational and site-specific material that is not otherwise available, like your excellent tutorials for example, but for a commercially available product 20$/h feels kinda steep. I know, I know, the right price is the price that a large enough number of customers are willing to pay etc etc. I'm just sayin' mkay.
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michael
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 07:37:25 AM »
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There are a lot of factors that go into pricing, in particular with this product.

Firstly, LuLa isn't the iTunes store. We don't do millions of downloads a day. This means that our bandwidth costs are much higher, and also our credit card processing costs (because of our low volume) are much higher as well. This makes any individual transaction under $10 uneconomical.

We've priced these episodes as appropriately as we can, given the limitations of our business model, revenue sharing with Art and his producers, transaction costs, and other overhead.

Michael
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 07:58:52 AM »
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...This makes any individual transaction under $10 uneconomical...

How about some sort of cascading volume discounts? Just a thought.
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Slobodan

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Craig Arnold
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 08:34:41 AM »
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If this flies and you sell lots of episodes, then great, LL makes more money and the site keeps going and everyone is happy. Including me, even though I won't see the programs.

However it's possible that your cost structure is such that the per-episode price is just too high to sell very many episodes and this is not going to generate any significant revenue.

So as Slobodan says:

... perhaps a credit system whereby one might buy 10 episodes for $xx, to keep transaction costs lower. No doubt some work for your developer to keep track of the # of episodes downloaded etc, but should be do-able.

I presume you have investigated the possiblity of selling through iTunes? Of course that begs the question of what LL's role is, but you would probably be generating a very significant percentage of the sales because it's advertised/endorsed by LL. There may be some way to monetise that. Just a thought.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 01:53:31 AM by Craig Arnold » Logged

Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 09:35:25 AM »
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some thoughts:

- the iTunes Store is not really feasible - Apple takes a disproportionately huge slice + the large development costs. Sure they have a huge potential market with huge number of offerings - but then the customer has to find us. My guess is that our visibility & market penetration on this site is pretty good.

- There is a unique selling proposition on these videos: they are HD 720P which is unavailable elsewhere.

- The HD format is designed to import directly onto the iPad through iTunes

- We may or may not offer a 'per 13 show season package' but the pricing will never be low enough for some.  Smiley  And certainly will never be as low as the SD product elsewhere.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 09:44:42 AM by Chris Sanderson » Logged

Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 02:33:10 PM »
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I don't wish to be a nuisance, but I do think customer feedback is a good thing. Anyways, at the current pricing I too can't afford the product. At $5.00/episode I would be quite happy to purchase these episodes, they look great!
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Owin
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2010, 03:47:07 PM »
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I have to agree with the majority, price is too high.

You can buy both series I and II on DVD for $130, half the price the site is asking.

I for one won't be buying at $10 per 30min episode.

Sorry.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 03:53:22 PM by Owin » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2010, 03:58:50 PM »
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Nobody's a 'nuisance' and there's no need to apologize! The pricing will be staying much as it is and naturally it's buyers' choice
 Roll Eyes
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 04:49:15 PM »
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There are a lot of factors that go into pricing, in particular with this product.

Firstly, LuLa isn't the iTunes store. We don't do millions of downloads a day. This means that our bandwidth costs are much higher, and also our credit card processing costs (because of our low volume) are much higher as well. This makes any individual transaction under $10 uneconomical.

We've priced these episodes as appropriately as we can, given the limitations of our business model, revenue sharing with Art and his producers, transaction costs, and other overhead.

Michael


I follow you about the transaction costs, but offering packages is a solution for this.
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 04:31:10 AM »
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You guys could always save your money on the towering $10/DVD cost ... by traveling to these places yourself, video-photographing (and editing) everything with your own equipment ... and then you could watch your own "free" DVDs at home


Jack




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David Hufford
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 05:14:12 AM »
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You guys could always save your money on the towering $10/DVD cost ... by traveling to these places yourself, video-photographing (and editing) everything with your own equipment ... and then you could watch your own "free" DVDs at home

You'd have a point, perhaps, were that the only alternative to purchasing this program especially when discussing DVDs. It isn't as mentioned and linked to above.

One the other hand, a few select episodes might be a more convenient purchase since they can be downloaded, especially for those of us who live outside the US.
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 07:48:28 AM »
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You'd have a point, perhaps, were that the only alternative to purchasing this program especially when discussing DVDs. It isn't as mentioned and linked to above.
One the other hand, a few select episodes might be a more convenient purchase since they can be downloaded, especially for those of us who live outside the US.

Not sure I'd want to buy and watch all of them. I'd have to watch one and see if that viewing warranted the purchase of others.

If it did, and I decided to purchase all of them, I would privately inquire about a possible multiple discount rather than publicly cry over it not being available.

What gets me is people always want to cry about not getting what they want "easier," rather than appreciate the effort it took to make the product available in the first place.

Jack


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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 08:51:12 AM »
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Not sure I'd want to buy and watch all of them. I'd have to watch one and see if that viewing warranted the purchase of others.

If it did, and I decided to purchase all of them, I would privately inquire about a possible multiple discount rather than publicly cry over it not being available.

What gets me is people always want to cry about not getting what they want "easier," rather than appreciate the effort it took to make the product available in the first place.

Jack.

I took the original post and subsequent ones as more of a constructive discussion about the pricing, and not complaining.  In isolation $10 per film seems quite reasonable, and I have to say the quality of the sample is excellent, but $260 for the complete set does seem steep.  Very few people will commit to that sum of money (that is my supposition), and so the suggestion of a tiered pricing structure seems sensible.  If we are just interested in one or two films no problem, but I would should think that a viewer that really enjoys one or two might well be tempted to see the complete set - if the price is reasonable.  I imagine the people at LuLa are very interested in feedback of this kind because if they do not sell a reasonable volume they need to know if it is the product or the pricing at fault.  I think $5 each would be a good price for me - especially if I was going to end up buying a number of the films.

Jim
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JohnKoerner
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 10:19:04 AM »
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I took the original post and subsequent ones as more of a constructive discussion about the pricing, and not complaining.  In isolation $10 per film seems quite reasonable, and I have to say the quality of the sample is excellent, but $260 for the complete set does seem steep.  Very few people will commit to that sum of money (that is my supposition), and so the suggestion of a tiered pricing structure seems sensible.  If we are just interested in one or two films no problem, but I would should think that a viewer that really enjoys one or two might well be tempted to see the complete set - if the price is reasonable.  I imagine the people at LuLa are very interested in feedback of this kind because if they do not sell a reasonable volume they need to know if it is the product or the pricing at fault.  I think $5 each would be a good price for me - especially if I was going to end up buying a number of the films.
Jim

I agree with you Jim, in spirit.

Asking $10 for one DVD is reasonable from the seller's end ... and (if the viewer really enjoys it) wanting a discount for ordering the whole set together is also reasonable on the buyer's end.

However, a buyer directly stating that a price is "too high" is complaining. Publicly stating, "I won't buy it at that price," is also complaining. (Denial of this doesn't change it.)

Had the OP (and some others) just asked, "Is there any way to get a discount on ordering all the DVDs together?" ... rather than stating all the reasons why they won't be buying them ... then I would agree that the intent was not to complain. (As Slobodan suggested.)

Certainly, enough information and resources have been given away on this site for years NOT to publicly quibble with a man over $5 ... and to approach the prospect of getting a discount for ordering the whole set in a non-complaining manner.

JMHO,

Jack




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Craig Arnold
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« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2010, 02:13:58 PM »
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I agree with you Jim, in spirit.

Asking $10 for one DVD is reasonable from the seller's end ... and (if the viewer really enjoys it) wanting a discount for ordering the whole set together is also reasonable on the buyer's end.

However, a buyer directly stating that a price is "too high" is complaining. Publicly stating, "I won't buy it at that price," is also complaining. (Denial of this doesn't change it.)

Had the OP (and some others) just asked, "Is there any way to get a discount on ordering all the DVDs together?" ... rather than stating all the reasons why they won't be buying them ... then I would agree that the intent was not to complain. (As Slobodan suggested.)

Certainly, enough information and resources have been given away on this site for years NOT to publicly quibble with a man over $5 ... and to approach the prospect of getting a discount for ordering the whole set in a non-complaining manner.

JMHO,

Jack

Well obviously I am very disappointed that you have taken it this way. I was sure that at least someone would.

Over the years I have purchased all the LLVJ episodes since number 10, all 4 lightroom tutorials and the camera to print tutorial, as well as Michael's Bangladesh book. So I don't think I'm quite the freeloader or whinger you claim.  

As a person who has purchased extensively from the LL before I thought that MR might find it interesting to know that $10 for a single 30-minute TV episode was a cost that made me balk where nothing else on this site has ever done so before.

Last week I never even knew the program existed. I am sure I'll manage somehow to overcome my bitterness and grief that I can't/won't pay that much for a TV series. Unfortunately the psychological scarring from the way in which you have ruthlessly exposed my repressed and ill-mannered complaining will probably stay with me for life.  
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2010, 04:07:29 PM »
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Unfortunately the psychological scarring from the way in which you have ruthlessly exposed my repressed and ill-mannered complaining will probably stay with me for life.  
Perhaps this will make the bitter pill somewhat less hard to swallow:   Grin

An FYI before we announce and post any further episodes of Art Wolfe's Travels to the Edge.

We will be making each 13 episode season available as a package for $99.00

For those who have already purchased some shows: if you purchase 10 shows, you may ask our Customer Service for a coupon for the complete season's 13 episode package - thus allowing you the discounted price.

Please note that this applies only to each separate season and the package price does not apply to purchases of 10 shows across different seasons.

Chris
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2010, 07:59:21 PM »
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The pricing makes sense for a per episode download - i.e. the costs reflects the ability to go a la carte and on demand.  If you wanted the entire series and don't mind waiting a week for the UPS truck, just purchasing the DVDs from public television or the show site makes a lot more sense (public television is the less expensive option over the show site - by a material amount).  I think anyone interested in the series as a package is aware of those options, so I don't think I'm stealing any of LL's thunder there.  Again, what they've got here that's new and of value is the per episode option.  I purchased the set from Oregon Public Broadcasting awhile back for not that much, although OPB is no longer carrying it.  The public TV store called: channel 9 store  (www.channel9store.com) has each season for about $49.00 per season set (4 discs in each season set).
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 07:12:57 AM by Theodore » Logged
Craig Arnold
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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 01:37:38 AM »
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Perhaps this will make the bitter pill somewhat less hard to swallow:   Grin

An FYI before we announce and post any further episodes of Art Wolfe's Travels to the Edge.

We will be making each 13 episode season available as a package for $99.00

For those who have already purchased some shows: if you purchase 10 shows, you may ask our Customer Service for a coupon for the complete season's 13 episode package - thus allowing you the discounted price.

Please note that this applies only to each separate season and the package price does not apply to purchases of 10 shows across different seasons.

Chris

Ooh, so if I think of photography as a religion, and LL as a church...

Then by purchasing the series (with it's super discount!) I receive an indulgence which will allow me, with the recitation of a ten DOF equations and five 'hail Leicas', to heal this terrible wound of the soul. It would seem silly to refuse such an offer.  Grin

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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 03:35:56 PM »
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The pricing makes sense for a per episode download - i.e. the costs reflects the ability to go a la carte.  If you wanted the entire series, just purchasing the DVDs from public television or the show site makes a lot more sense (public television is the less expensive option over the show site - by a material amount).  I think anyone interested in the series as a package is aware of those options, so I don't think I'm stealing any of LL's thunder there.  Again, what they've got here that's new and of value is the per episode option.  I purchased the set from Oregon Public Broadcasting awhile back for not that much, although OPB is no longer carrying it.  The public TV store called: channel 9 store  (www.channel9store.com) has each season for about $49.00 per season set (4 discs in each season set or $10 a disc).

You seem to be ignoring what's a major selling point: LL is offering it in 720p, while DVD is 480p (at best). Assuming the LL downloads have decent bitrates and modern codecs, quality improvement over DVD is huge. Given the quality of the sample on LL main page I trust this will be the case.

1080p would be even better. Or 1440p. Or 2k. Or 4k. The race will never end...
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