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Author Topic: Anas platyrhynchos  (Read 5052 times)
Justinr
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« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2010, 04:50:40 PM »
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Funny things qualifications. Here in Ireland 1,000 nurses finished their training this year and had no jobs to go to whilst a friend's daughter graduated in equine science at Limerick and awaiting the 50 that made up her class there were 250 people wanting to employ them. Funnier still is that our youngest is keen to study something horsey whilst as a concerned parent I've always considered nursing a much safer bet. Well, that's me shot down pretty emphatically!

Returning to photography I really don't see any sort of licensing arrangement being effective let alone practical or enforceable. Would it mean for instance that Uncle Bob would be barred from taking snaps at his nieces wedding for a few quid? Trying to get that to work on the ground would be a somewhat thankless task.
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RSL
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« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2010, 04:55:05 PM »
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Because of that, and to a far lesser extent to the benefit of the business world, I do now think that some formal certificate of competence should be mandatory as a form of basic protecion.
Rob C

Rob, The problem with that is that a person or people have to judge who's competent and who's not. As soon as you create a certifier or group of certifiers you've opened the process to bribery and general corruption. You're also depending on a person or group who may not be competent. How are you going to select the certifiers? Elect them? Have them appointed by politicians?

When I was mayor of Manitou Springs, Colorado we had a group called the Historic Preservation Commission. This was a commission that had the authority to tell you what color to paint your house, etc. The chairwoman was a gal who was known around town as "the queen of kitsch." She was a nice lady but her taste left something to be desired. There wasn't any way to get her out of there. I tried to get rid of the commission by pointing out that if we'd had historic preservation from the time Manitou first was settled we'd all be living in tepees, but the Council didn't buy it.

Something I first noticed when I was a kid: There are people who will gripe and complain about the Congress and the President and in the next breath tell you about something the "government" ought to make a law about. Who the hell do they think the "government" is?
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2010, 06:05:33 PM »
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… There are people who will gripe and complain about the Congress and the President and in the next breath tell you about something the "government" ought to make a law about. Who the hell do they think the "government" is?

Well, you can't really blame your wife for everything… that is where the government comes handy. Wink
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Slobodan

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RSL
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« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2010, 08:21:02 PM »
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Right, Slobodan, but usually complaining about the government is a reasoned and reasonable response. It's the second part of that situation that's not reasoned or reasonable.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2010, 10:11:09 PM »
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Right, Slobodan, but usually complaining about the government is a reasoned and reasonable response. It's the second part of that situation that's not reasoned or reasonable.
But suddenly in the U.S.A. at least it is unfashionable to use reason when complaining about government. Facts are out. "Truth" is in the eye of the (often very low-res) beholder.

Eric
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Justinr
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« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2010, 02:56:38 AM »
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Quote
Something I first noticed when I was a kid: There are people who will gripe and complain about the Congress and the President and in the next breath tell you about something the "government" ought to make a law about. Who the hell do they think the "government" is?


So much truth there.

There are always people wanting laws to be made about this, that and t'other, just so long as they perceive such rules to bolster their own immediate well being that is. Try imposing somebody else's wish list of legislation upon them and suddenly their rights are threatened and democracy is once more teetering on the edge. Many folk just can't seem to think beyond their own little comfort zone which has a most corrosive effect upon society as a whole.

Personally I feel that America has now become ungovernable in many ways. Obama is at heart probably one of the straightest and most well meaning presidents the country has had for decades and yet the fruitcakes on the right cannot accept anything that smacks of common sense or decency if it offends their totally self centred view and belief in themselves as God's (their own god of course) chosen people. The US could at one time be respected, not any more, despite the many good people who just happen to be American.

Sorry, got a bit carried away there, what was that about ducks?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 02:59:41 AM by Justinr » Logged

Rob C
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« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2010, 03:43:10 AM »
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Rob, The problem with that is that a person or people have to judge who's competent and who's not. As soon as you create a certifier or group of certifiers you've opened the process to bribery and general corruption. You're also depending on a person or group who may not be competent. How are you going to select the certifiers? Elect them? Have them appointed by politicians?



Russ, I believe you are exaggerating the problem for the sake of making the point. To extend that argument, no qualifications would become possible, neither medical, flying, sailing, teaching, anything. There is no difficulty in selecting valid judges: the old Institute of British Photographers (IBP) was perfectly capable of selecting and grading the standing of members until its best efforts were degraded by the wedding fratenity clamouring to get a bit of the legitimacy for themselves. After that was permitted, the thing became a meaningless joke, as did the qualifications and the spin-off associations of, mainly, money-creating licensing committees. It was good when it was tough.

I've lived through the period where qualifications were not a legal requirement but most certainly were essential weapons in any serious effort to gain employment within industrial photography. The commercial, outside world of poseurs and charlatans was always a different kettle of, often, stinking fish, even if mainy short-lived ones.

Rob C
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Justan
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« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2010, 07:17:02 AM »
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Following is one of the better feedback commentaries i've read here in a while. Great work!


Sure thing Dale.

I am no expert on bird photography but I do try to study what these photographers do. One thing I have learned about animal photography in general (especially small animal photography) is try not to shoot "down" at the animal, but instead try to shoot "up" at it (or at least try to be on the animal's level). If you have to lay down flat to get to their level, go ahead and do it. If the subject is already overhead, or level, so much the better. This kind of perspective gives a sense of presence, majesty to the animal ... whereas shooting "down" at a smaller animal makes it look (well) small and insignificant.

The most compelling duck photography I have viewed seems to come when the perspective is at the water's level, or close to it, where either the color/form of the duck is itself exquisite, or both the duck and the background blend or harmonize in some unique, impacting way. It's hard to get all of the factors in your favor at once when trying to compose a nature shot (lighting, shadows, framing, background, perfect focus, etc.) ... especially when the subject is moving, the clouds are streaming passed the sun which constantly changes the lighting, and/or the wind is blowing ... but that is just what makes it so worthwhile when you finally do get it all together just right in that one magic moment and just nail your shot Smiley

The "almosts" you pile-up in between times will either drive you into despair and frustration ... or they will drive you to obsession and concentration ... until you nail yet another perfect one again.

I can truthfully promise you I throw away 10x more photos than I keep ...

Jack

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RSL
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« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2010, 09:55:11 AM »
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Russ, I believe you are exaggerating the problem for the sake of making the point. To extend that argument, no qualifications would become possible, neither medical, flying, sailing, teaching, anything. There is no difficulty in selecting valid judges: the old Institute of British Photographers (IBP) was perfectly capable of selecting and grading the standing of members until its best efforts were degraded by the wedding fratenity clamouring to get a bit of the legitimacy for themselves. After that was permitted, the thing became a meaningless joke, as did the qualifications and the spin-off associations of, mainly, money-creating licensing committees. It was good when it was tough.

Rob, Maybe I'm missing something, but seems to me you just made my point.

But: (1) As far as medical certification is concerned, here in the US the American Medical Association controls the whole thing. They determine how many people will be allowed to become MDs, etc. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing, but it sure ends up "underserving" rural communities. (2) Flying certification is a bit different from hairdresser certification. It doesn't depend on a certain number of hours spent in a classroom. It depends on an instructor pilot sitting next to you with a clipboard while you fly an airplane. If the pilot works for an airline the airline is very interested in making sure the guy isn't going to prang one of their airplanes, so the IPs are very good. (3) Sailing is a lot like flying. Two of my sons are certified. But the only thing sailing certification does is make sure you're qualified when you rent a boat. (4) Finally, teaching: I don't know what teacher certification is like in your part of the world, but here in the US it's a joke. It has nothing to do with professional qualifications in, say, math, if you're going to teach a math class. It has only to do with how many hours you've sat in a classroom listening to someone drone on in educationese. It's controlled by the unions for the benefit of the unions. I come from a long line of teachers and I've seen the whole disaster at work.

But for photographic certification: Who's going to evaluate the photographers? On what basis? Seems to me that to answer either of those questions lands you in hot water.
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Rob C
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« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2010, 12:22:36 PM »
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My daughter and her hubby are both teachers, and it took a university degree plus further stuff to get to teaching a class; I'm not sure how the unions function, but they can't have done very well as the salaries are pretty low... However, I do think I was told that some reach the teacher level without a degree and need another sort of qualification. Perhaps that limits the harm they can do higher up the grade because they work lower down the totem pole. However, bad teaching at any level will be paid for by the pupil.

If there's a problem in schools today (I only speak about Scotland) then I think it's a matter of discipline. When I was a schoolboy it never entered out heads to treat teachers with disrespect; they would never have tollerated such a dumb thing. Further, going home with a bad report or with a telephone call from the school arriving home before one, would have resulted in a further heap of troubles! Come to think of it, I don't think anybody I knew was inclined to be rude to adults; I don't believe it entered our heads. Why would it?

Today, some teachers fear the parent/teacher interface because of violent parents!

The blame for that, in my mind, falls squarely on the heads of the morons that took over basic education during and after the 60s. Worse, the same tribe seems to have taken over all the posts in the judiciary, too. Nobody gets legally thumped for anything. Unless it involves money. Steal that in a big way and you will be chased forever. Unless you are a Member of Parliament, when they will close ranks about you and obfuscate and stonewall until the press forgets.

Rob C
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