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Author Topic: sinarback 54m  (Read 5200 times)
Alan Matuka
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« on: November 09, 2010, 02:49:18 AM »
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I have been using Sinarback 54m ( 22 Mpi ) with my Hasselbladt, with 80 and 150 CF lenses.
Since I had no reference to what image quality I should expect images looked fairly O.K. - until I started noticing lack of sharpness and contrast. Also, often when shooting something beige it looks like sensor is trying to produce beige out of red, blue and other dots ( so instead of having a uniform beige panel it looks like image made out od big pixels ).
Recently I used Canon D5 and image quality seems a lot better, which I find strange.
Have you got an idea what could be the source of problem... maybe the fact that I'm using lenses that are made for film photography, and not digital...

thank you
Alan

ps it would be great if someone is using same gear combination, so I we could exchange images to compare quality
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MartinWidmann
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 03:04:35 AM »
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Sinarback 54 M should be able to deliver stunning images. I am not familiar with your Hasselbladt lenses though, so I cannot comment on these. One point could be the software. Canon images, especially jpegs, are optimized to look good. Sinar CaptureShops image processing is rather conservative in comparison, especially, if you use linear curve. The idea is to give a lot of post processing headroom. This might result is a little unspectacular images from the start.

You could shoot some images with the new CaptureShop 6 and open these images (DNGs) in Camera Raw. There you get a look that is more similar to what you are used from Canon.

Martin
« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 10:01:28 AM by MartinWidmann » Logged

Martin Widmann
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Alan Matuka
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 03:26:16 AM »
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@ martinwidmann

yes, images created through Captureshop lack some contrast and sharpness in the start...

as a rule I shoot always in highest resolution ( 16 bit ), and then run images through Photoshop.
Usual process is to :
- reduce from 16 to 8 bit
- go to levels and ajust contrast by giving more white and black, so tones snd colour get some sharper look
- enhance image shapnes with ' unsharp mask ' filter

so far I gave been using Captureshop 5.6.3 and couldn't get raw images...

could I email you some image so you could see first hand for yourself ?

thanks,

Alan
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DavorHorvatic
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 03:27:39 AM »
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Sinarback 54 M should be able to deliver stunning images. I am not familiar with your Hasselbladt lenses though, so I cannot comment on these. One point could be the software. Canon images, especially jpegs, are optimized to look good. Sinar CaptureShops image processing is rather conservative in comparison, especially, if you use linear curve. The idea is to give a lot of post processing headroom. This might result is a little unspectacular images from the start.

You could shoot some images with the new CaptureShop 6 and open these images (DNGs) in Camera Raw. There you get a look that is more similar to what you are used from canon.

Martin


Martin, I was also expecting your advice, so I hope, you donīt mind if I do it,  to check, if the sensor reference is installed on the computer, the possibility to produce with Capture Shop additionally lens reference(s) and to use software features in Capture Shop (Color Alchemist, Adaptive Color Compensation etc.) to provide better quality, and also advice to all Sinarback users to provide more information, so Sinar supporter can provide them advices and possibilities that can solve the problems. Sinar was always very good and it is still this days in supporting Sinarback users. This is what I can tell as somebody who supported Sinarback users as distributor for seven years and also as Sinarback user since I have change the sides in the beginning of 2007 and working daly using Sinarback eMotion 75LV, Sinarback 54MC, Hy6...
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Cheers

Davor

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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 09:30:47 AM »
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Hi All,

I shoot a Rollei 6008/54m with the Rollei 80mm  - i think it is the same as the hassy 80 with a different mount.
OP, sounds like something is off - image quality is amazing with the 54m - far exceeds any dslr i have used....Not sure how u shoot but here is what i do and the color is dead on...

1) I use the standard profile in Capture Shop 6 (just downloaded) and  shoot a ref image with a x-rite colorchecker and use neutral picker

2) i add a slight s-curve as my default setting in captureshop

3) process with adobe camera raw

are you  setting the shutter speed in capture shop to be slightly longer than the shutter on the camera ?  You get some weird red blurring if you dont do this...  for instance if your camera is at say a 1 sec exposure set capture shop to 2 sec...I had a similar problem when i first started using the 54M because of this

regards,

dennis
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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 09:34:30 AM »
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Oh yeah....I assumed you were using Captureshop...
I have tried to use exposure with the 54M and although Sinar claims it is supported it does not work - my calls and emails to support in NJ went unanswered.  Shots were full of artifacts of red blue and green.  If you are using exposure try Captureshop

D

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Alan Matuka
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 09:51:28 AM »
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@ denniscarbo

few things that I did not try...

2) i add a slight s-curve as my default setting in captureshop

I didn't change curve settingd, asuming post production is better done after...

3) process with adobe camera raw


like you said, I'm using Captureshop 5.6.3...
what are practical differences when you use Captureshop 6 ?

thanks

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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 10:02:34 AM »
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Hi Alan,

it saves as a DNG instead of an STI file, seems to be faster on my core2duo mac as well ....download is free

I just add the curve in CS6 and some sharpening - files need very little PP

Regards,

Dennis
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Alan Matuka
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 02:55:45 PM »
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Hi Alan,

it saves as a DNG instead of an STI file, seems to be faster on my core2duo mac as well ....download is free

I just add the curve in CS6 and some sharpening - files need very little PP

Regards,

Dennis

good news about dng files, cos that's usual raw...
do you need a customer number to download it for free...

regards,

Alan
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MartinWidmann
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 02:58:07 PM »
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good news about dng files, cos that's usual raw...
do you need a customer number to download it for free...

regards,

Alan

Hi Alan,

the download is completely free an open. You can download CaptureShop 6 here:

http://www.sinar.ch/en/downloads/category/2-sinar-captureshop

Martin
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Martin Widmann
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Alan Matuka
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 03:06:22 PM »
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thank you, Martin...
I'll download it, and try it...

regards,
Alan
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 11:04:21 AM »
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Try to save as DNG and open the files in Capture One.
Itīs soooo much better. You will never use Sinars software again Wink

Henrik
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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 12:12:02 PM »
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I  only use Captureshop to "Capture" the photo as it is not a very good PP tool...all my PP in done in Photoshop

May try capture one though : )

Regards,

Dennis
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Christopher Arnoldi
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 01:21:51 PM »
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I think, Captureshop ist not a postprocessing tool, it`s a preprocessing tool. The image gets processed when you export it into a TIFF file. When you do the processing before export, it's (nearly) lossless.
I love Captureshop for its expandable curve window. You then can adjust the curve very fine. I do most of my adjustments in Captureshop and very little in Photoshop.

Christopher
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DavorHorvatic
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 02:18:28 PM »
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Try to save as DNG and open the files in Capture One.
Itīs soooo much better. You will never use Sinars software again Wink

Henrik

I have done that. But why do so? I tried with Capture Shop 6.0b12 to:

a) process in Capture Shop, export to TIFF and open in PS CS4 for PP
b) leave DNG as it is and open with Adobe Camera Raw 5.5 and then open in PS CS4 for PP
c) import DNG to Capture One and process to TIFF and then open in PS4 for PP

At the end, all three files opened in PS CS4 look very similar, but if I would have to make some kind of ranking, then would be "c" on the third place, because in the dark (black) arias, there were some color artefacts coming though and that was not the case with "a" and "b". I was impressed with the quality of "b", as I was expecting that the best result is to process with Capture Shop.
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Cheers

Davor

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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2010, 03:30:49 PM »
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I think, Captureshop ist not a postprocessing tool, it`s a preprocessing tool. The image gets processed when you export it into a TIFF file. When you do the processing before export, it's (nearly) lossless.
I love Captureshop for its expandable curve window. You then can adjust the curve very fine. I do most of my adjustments in Captureshop and very little in Photoshop.

Agree Christopher - that is basically all i use in CS6 (the curves tool and neutral picker maybe so sharpening) then over to Photoshop for final
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Geoffreyg
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2010, 08:51:33 PM »
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Not sure if OP is having a processing issue or a shooting issue. Could be the back/lens needs alignment. He should be getting impressive results, even (at the risk of being wrong) with maybe sub-optimal work flow or processing. He may well have a back that needs "tuning" in its mount (e.g. shimming to get it right). Wouldn't be the first time....I understand Sinar is very good about checking and doing this work for you, even while you wait sometimes in Switzerland!
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Geoff
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 11:40:51 AM »
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Alan: You mentioned as first step "reducing to 8 bit". Is that your real chronological order?
Just asking.
Eduardo

@ martinwidmann

yes, images created through Captureshop lack some contrast and sharpness in the start...

as a rule I shoot always in highest resolution ( 16 bit ), and then run images through Photoshop.
Usual process is to :
- reduce from 16 to 8 bit
- go to levels and ajust contrast by giving more white and black, so tones snd colour get some sharper look
- enhance image shapnes with ' unsharp mask ' filter

so far I gave been using Captureshop 5.6.3 and couldn't get raw images...

could I email you some image so you could see first hand for yourself ?

thanks,

Alan

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Alan Matuka
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 03:24:30 PM »
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Alan: You mentioned as first step "reducing to 8 bit". Is that your real chronological order?
Just asking.
Eduardo


well, I couldn't say it's always in that order...
but since few of my cliants said they use 8-bit files only I started doing it as a habit as soon as I open file in Photoshop...
thanks,

Alan
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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 05:16:39 PM »
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I never reduce to 8 bit until final PP is complete...then my clients always get 8 bit
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