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Author Topic: NEC PA271w or many others do not dispay 10bit in MAC\SNOW LEOPARD....  (Read 6611 times)
ihbond
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« on: November 19, 2010, 11:17:35 AM »
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My Config: ATI radeon 5870, snow leopard 10.6.5, pa271w, mac pro 2008 3,1 (since it has snow leopard the card is supported), monoprice 5714 adapter (MDP to DP connection), photoshop cs5 (advanced,open GL), NEC DP to DP adapter

Last couple of weeks I have been trying to get this ironed out..Any help would be great...

It all started when I was trying to use the ramp.psd by AMD to verify i had 10bit output (http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/ramp.psd) retrieved 10/19/2010 "Professional Graphics Tools and Technologies"

I had some banding (same as the DVI connectors as well) and even tried the 5770 upgrade card. Same results. (using native drivers, built in..as supported my snow leopard)

I then did a little more research on the internet and found that one of adobe's developer (Chris cox) had mentioned..
"This is a driver issue for Apple. Apple allows 10 bit framebuffers in OpenGL, but do not support 10 bit output on any video cards yet. If things work correctly, no changes should be needed in Photoshop, only in the drivers."
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/736938 retrieved 10/19/2010 from adobe forums "PS CS5 10-bit video under Open GL on Mac OS??"

I was thinking to myself "how can this be with no mention from NEC" I would assume in their labs they would test 10 bit (with snow leopard) and their Spectra view ii series, and if not at least have a white paper on this issue.

I did call up apple and pleaded my case, and they gladly opened a trouble ticket and look in to this accusation, or possibly a defect and I hope to get this figured out. NEC was not sure if their was support either in snow leopard (and suggested I write on this board, since some of their specialist monitor and offer their help here)

I was wondering if others have run into this same issue as well, and i was hoping someone can verify this.

Thanks
Ian Bond
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 11:32:14 AM by ihbond » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2010, 11:51:07 AM »
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I was thinking to myself "how can this be with no mention from NEC" I would assume in their labs they would test 10 bit (with snow leopard) and their Spectra view ii series, and if not at least have a white paper on this issue.

Read this (specifically the post by Will at NEC)
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=47259.0;topicseen
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On Mac OS things are a lot more immature as far as 10 bit support goes. So far there is no public information on this yet from Apple as far as what OS versions and hardware supports this.

I'll leave it up to the folks at Adobe to comment on if/when 10 bit support will be enabled in Photoshop etc.
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Andrew Rodney
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ihbond
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2010, 12:09:10 PM »
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Thank you sir.

Thats my conclusion as well.

I hope NEC can put out a white paper and apple fixes this.

Unfortunately this is something I need for my company, for certain engineering textures. I will have to try another platform ?
THanks
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digitaldog
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2010, 12:30:21 PM »
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I hope NEC can put out a white paper and apple fixes this.

Well Apple may have a part in all this, but what I’m reading between the lines is that Adobe has some work to do too.
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Andrew Rodney
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ihbond
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2010, 01:15:24 PM »
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According to what Chris cox had suggested "If things work correctly, no changes should be needed in Photoshop, only in the drivers"

it sounded like the work had to be done in the os drivers for the 10bit frame buffer display output..

Seems weird that in the  apple Development articles it shows developers that it is capable, but for some reason it does not allow for the 10 bit output.

Either way, I hope it does get fixed, or at least acknowledge for the snow leopard OS.


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digitaldog
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2010, 01:17:28 PM »
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According to what Chris cox had suggested "If things work correctly, no changes should be needed in Photoshop, only in the drivers"

I read what Chris wrote and what Will wrote. Somewhere between the two, the actual reason this doesn’t fully work needs to be uncovered.
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Andrew Rodney
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ihbond
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2010, 01:37:09 PM »
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what really strikes me is the lack of testing in their labs.
I dont get it.. you would think along with their regression tests they would have new functionality test and report back if it failed then document this and write it up as a possible defect or lack of functionality.

Well heres hoping for one day 10bit display from apple
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WillH
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2010, 03:27:29 PM »
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Following FAQs may be of interest:

10 bit Video Support Questions
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Will Hollingworth
Senior Manager, Product Development
NEC Display Solutions of America, Inc.
ihbond
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 03:37:38 PM »
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Definitely is..Thank you....
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TKTeo
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2010, 12:24:14 AM »
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According to the FAQ:

QUESTION: Does Mac OS support 10 bit video on DisplayPort?

ANSWER: As of November 2010, there is no support for 10 bit video on DisplayPort with any Mac systems.

So suppose that a user owns a current Mac system with a video card capable of 10-bit per channel support AND a wide gamut monitor also capable of 10-bit per channel. Does this mean that the capabilities of both the video card and monitor is not being fully utilized?

And could this problem explain why, when I view the measured color space of my monitor after calibration, the size of the actual measured colour space is noticably less than the size of the colour space in the manufacturer's icc file for my monitor?
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2010, 01:18:27 PM »
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Display Port and NEC PA monitors are not quite there yet, IMHO.  My PA 271W frequently reports loss of the Display Port signal and quits displaying Windows Aero or blacks the screen completely. I have the current drivers.

Excellent display quality when it works, however. Roll Eyes
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WillH
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2010, 01:52:42 PM »
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And could this problem explain why, when I view the measured color space of my monitor after calibration, the size of the actual measured colour space is noticably less than the size of the colour space in the manufacturer's icc file for my monitor?

No. 10 bit support has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with color gamut size.

The difference will be due to:
a) the color sensor you are using vs whatever sensor was used to measure the values the manufacturer used.
b) the settings on your display (for example, black level has an impact on color gamut)
c) individual variations between your display and the sample the manufacturer used.
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Will Hollingworth
Senior Manager, Product Development
NEC Display Solutions of America, Inc.
Schewe
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2010, 05:58:14 PM »
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So suppose that a user owns a current Mac system with a video card capable of 10-bit per channel support AND a wide gamut monitor also capable of 10-bit per channel. Does this mean that the capabilities of both the video card and monitor is not being fully utilized?

Yes...that's exactly what it means. Windows (with a registry hack) DOES support a 10-bit display pipeline with Photoshop CS5. On Mac, there is no 10-bit display pipeline yet...even if some cards and displays would support them. So, wanna make a difference? Make noise to Apple. Photoshop CS5 and NEC will be ready when Apple get's their shit together...(it does work on Windows with the right card).
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rmyers
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 10:01:24 PM »
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Can you explain the registry hack thing?  I am buying the PA241 in the next few weeks.  I am going to build a desktop soon after.  This document I found on Firepro cards makes it sound like getting 10 bit is just a matter of setting the card up.

http://www.amd.com/us/Documents/48108-B_ATI_FirePro_Adobe_10-Bit_FAQ_R5_Final.pdf


I had already chosen a video card, ATI Firepro V4800, but was glad to see it confirmed on the NEC FAQ link in the above post.  I had emailed NEC and got a reply that they didn't have a list of approved cards.

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