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Author Topic: Adobe Color Printer Utility  (Read 36550 times)
madmanchan
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« on: November 30, 2010, 09:31:09 PM »
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Free utility for printing profile targets:

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/834/cpsid_83497.html
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 04:01:17 AM »
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Is this still, should it be, in beta ?

I've just downloaded and tried it out and it's not really working correctly.

The images are getting resized which isn't very helpful.
My original target image is 263mm x 173mm(untagged, 8bit TIFF, 1050x692 pixels @101dpi) and it can be correctly printed out via PS CS4.
Using ACPU I get a different size I get 253mm x 166mm with all my printers(Epson 3800/1800/OkiB4100).

Not exactly the slick interface we've come to expect from Adobe either, especially considering how long we've waited for this.

Paul
Using Windows 7 64 bit, all fully patched and running the latest drivers.


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RHPS
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 09:03:44 AM »
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I've found the same. My image gets re-sized from 273mm to 263mm wide (72ppi) on my 3800. Running XP and no problems with printing from any other application.

Thanks for pointing this out Paul. I was just about to recommend it to my profile customers!
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digitaldog
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 09:34:35 AM »
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There is also a slight scale disconnect on this end under 10.6.5 but my iSis does read the target. That’s about the most picky device out there in terms of scaling issues with targets. I ran the same TC918 for the iSis out of CS4 and the new utility. The target from the utility is reading now (even the barcode) so I think we’re OK here. I do want to let both targets dry down and measure them, plot the deltaE in ColorThink.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 11:29:41 AM »
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Those of you that have the ability to print a target out of the new ACPU, Photoshop CS5 (using the null transform trick*) and as importantly CS4, you could do a great service by printing and providing CGATS files for analysis (or using ColorThink if you have it) to provide a deltaE of the three different methods. I’m seeing some oddities (differences) I cannot yet account for between ACPU and CS4. ACPU and CS5 using the hack produce very similar results (worst patch 0.24 dE) which is what I’d expect from an iSis. But those two paths and CS4 are off more than I’d like. If you do not have ColorThink, email me the CGATs and I’ll plot them.

*the null transform trick is assign Adobe RGB to the target, then in CS5’s Print dialog, select Photoshop Manages Color and select Adobe RGB as the output color space.
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Andrew Rodney
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 11:33:00 AM »
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The other variable you should also use in this test is printing the target from Indesign which uses Apple's old printing path.

Doyle

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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 11:34:51 AM »
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The other variable you should also use in this test is printing the target from Indesign which uses Apple's old printing path.

At some point yes. But for now, lets look at the scaling issue and more importantly to me, if CS5, CS4 and ACPU are all producing the same behavior.
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Andrew Rodney
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 11:59:55 AM »
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At some point yes. But for now, lets look at the scaling issue and more importantly to me, if CS5, CS4 and ACPU are all producing the same behavior.

At this point I have more trust in ID than CS5, CS4 and ACPU for printing targets. For me when I get around to testing this ID reference point.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 12:03:34 PM »
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At this point I have more trust in ID than CS5, CS4 and ACPU for printing targets. For me when I get around to testing this ID reference point.

That’s fine. But many of use have traditionally used CS4 or CS5, the utility is supposed to “fix” the issue of the no No Color Management option in Photoshop so my only suggestion is, before we get too many data points involved, lets see if the three work as we expect. If you don’t have any plans to print targets using the three items, by all means, use ID for this task (we know its print path is different from Photoshop and Lightroom).
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Andrew Rodney
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MHMG
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 12:52:35 PM »
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That’s fine. But many of use have traditionally used CS4 or CS5, the utility is supposed to “fix” the issue of the no No Color Management option in Photoshop so my only suggestion is, before we get too many data points involved, lets see if the three work as we expect. If you don’t have any plans to print targets using the three items, by all means, use ID for this task (we know its print path is different from Photoshop and Lightroom).

Indd/CS5's "print path" different from PSCS5? So, the measured values of targets printed from these two apps won't match even when applying the same null transform technique for target printing? Yikes, now that is a problem because it means a profile built from PSCS5 using the null transform method or this new utility (if the new utility in fact matches PSCS5 output) won't work well for Indd and vice versa, nor for older versions of Mac OS and PS, nor for other non Adobe color managed apps. And, likewise, all older profiles built prior to PSCS5 won't work well in PSCS5.  So, I'm with Doyle on this matter.  Seems like it's a really important issue that needs to be resolved, indeed more important than whether the new utility matches PSCS5.

FWIW, after upgrading to OS10.6 and PSCS5, printing from PSCS5 became very suspect to me. It almost works right but not really. Like Doyle, my only answer so far has been to quit printing from PSCS5 and both profile and print using InDD.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 01:09:31 PM by MHMG » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 01:03:16 PM »
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Indd/CS5's "print path" different from PSCS5?

They use different APIs. Going back to my V4 profile testing, I saw the scum dot in Photoshop and Lightroom, not in ID. We still don’t know why this is an issue and we suspect it has something to do with Apple’s handling of the data but the differences in the API’s seem to indicate one reason why ID is immune to the scum dot.

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So, the measured values of targets printed from these two apps won't match even when applying the same null transform technique for target printing?

I didn’t say that, it might very well match. Since you use ID for this task, it be a good idea to test this. That the APIs are different doesn’t mean that it will not match. It should.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 01:11:28 PM »
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So, I'm with Doyle on this matter.  Seems like it's a really important issue that needs to be resolved, indeed more important than whether the new utility matches PSCS5.

It does match CS5, but CS4, not so much. At least it would be useful for others to run the same tests and confirm.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 01:35:52 PM »
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They use different APIs. Going back to my V4 profile testing, I saw the scum dot in Photoshop and Lightroom, not in ID. We still don’t know why this is an issue and we suspect it has something to do with Apple’s handling of the data but the differences in the API’s seem to indicate one reason why ID is immune to the scum dot. ...

I didn’t say that, it might very well match. Since you use ID for this task, it be a good idea to test this. That the APIs are different doesn’t mean that it will not match. It should.

I couldn't get a decent match and gave up after a couple of days of trying to sort it out. In light of this discussion thread, I guess it's time to revisit the issue. And yes, I also got very serious scum dot issues from PSCS5 on output through the most recent Canon driver for an iPF8100 (not the 16 bit plug in), strangely not in the image whites but in the margin whites that have no image data being sent to the media at that location. Doesn't happen from InDD.

I concluded at that time the targets printed from InDDCS5 with a null transform technique did match targets I had routinely printed from PSCS3/10.5 on an older PowerPC Mac using PSCS3's no color management mode, but targets printed from PSCS5 under Snow Leopard differed by an average of several delta E.  Both sets of targets looked like they were plausibly printed, nothing way out of whack to indicate a target printing problem, but they just didn't match with reasonable accuracy. That means printing targets using PSCS5 appears to make app specific profile builds, perhaps suitable for use only with PSCS5 and Lightroom, but nothing else including other Adobe apps like InDD. So, if all you want to do is print from PS or perhaps lightroom, then maybe that's fine. But for every other app on the Snow Leopard platform, well it seems like we need to use Indd to make decent profiles. Oh, boy. Two steps forward, two steps back.

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shewhorn
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 01:40:46 PM »
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Those of you that have the ability to print a target out of the new ACPU, Photoshop CS5 (using the null transform trick*) and as importantly CS4, you could do a great service by printing and providing CGATS files for analysis (or using ColorThink if you have it) to provide a deltaE of the three different methods. I’m seeing some oddities (differences) I cannot yet account for between ACPU and CS4. ACPU and CS5 using the hack produce very similar results (worst patch 0.24 dE) which is what I’d expect from an iSis.

Hmm... this implies that printing from CS4 and CS5 using the null transform don't match. If that's the case then errrr.... it would appear as if we've missed something.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 02:01:54 PM »
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And yes, I also got very serious scum dot issues from PSCS5 on output through the most recent Canon driver for an iPF8100 (not the 16 bit plug in), strangely not in the image whites but in the margin whites that have no image data being sent to the media at that location. Doesn't happen from InDD.

And on my iPF6300, no scum dot with the driver (using V4 profiles). So go figure.

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I concluded at that time the targets printed from InDDCS5 with a null transform technique did match targets I had routinely printed from PSCS3/10.5 on an older PowerPC Mac using PSCS3's no color management mode, but targets printed from PSCS5 under Snow Leopard differed by an average of several delta E. 

Knowing where in color space this happens would be useful. With the TC918 target I tested quickly today, I see slightly above 1dE for 20 colors, mostly light green’s and teals when I sort this way in ColorThink. I don’t believe I did anything wrong printing because the average dE is low, its those worst 10% that concern me. I guess I’ll pop the same target into ID and see what I get.
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Andrew Rodney
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MHMG
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 02:14:19 PM »
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Knowing where in color space this happens would be useful. With the TC918 target I tested quickly today, I see slightly above 1dE for 20 colors, mostly light green’s and teals when I sort this way in ColorThink. I don’t believe I did anything wrong printing because the average dE is low, its those worst 10% that concern me. I guess I’ll pop the same target into ID and see what I get.

I will try to repeat the problem again in the next day or so. While at it I will throw in the new color printer utility for good measure (no pun intended). So, with TC918 target I will print one with:

1) PSCS3/OS10.5 to Epson 3880 (latest driver), using No color management mode
2) IDCS5/OS10.6 to Epson 3880 (latest driver) with null transform technique
3) PSCS5/OS10.6 to Epson 3880 (latest driver) with null transform technique
4) OS10.6 to Epson 3880 (latest driver) using new color printer utility app

Seems like a good plan?

Sure would be nice to have an ISIS right about now Roll Eyes My Spectroscan is a little slow by comparison, but with Measure tool if I find any significant differences, I will also look to see if there is any clustering of the data.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 02:28:37 PM by MHMG » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 02:16:10 PM »
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Sounds like a plan. Sorry its slow but it would be useful if we tested the same target at this point because if indeed there are some colors that are printing differently, we can compare them.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 02:19:02 PM »
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No Epson Prem luster in my lab at the moment, but I'll use some kind of satin/luster RC for these tests.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 02:22:50 PM »
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So in ID CS5, what are you doing to print the target untagged? It “thinks” the target is sRGB, I’m thinking of setting the color management area to use sRGB for output producing a null profile conversion. I don’t see a No Color Management option here.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 02:35:57 PM »
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So in ID CS5, what are you doing to print the target untagged? It “thinks” the target is sRGB, I’m thinking of setting the color management area to use sRGB for output producing a null profile conversion. I don’t see a No Color Management option here.

right, it needs the null transform technique to do this in InDD. You can set the document color space to sRGB or aRGB, assign same to the image, then pass it through to print with the destination profile set to same. Guarantees a null conversion from what I can tell. And matches my older "no color management" mode from PSCS3/OS10.5, so I'm confident (at least for V2 profiles) that my existing profile library still works in Snow Leopard for most of my apps including Indd but not PSCS5.
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