Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Adobe Color Printer Utility  (Read 35204 times)
Richard Man
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 83


WWW
« Reply #120 on: December 08, 2010, 02:38:28 AM »
ReplyReply

You mean like PSD may be? :-)
Logged

Rhossydd
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 1965


WWW
« Reply #121 on: December 08, 2010, 03:14:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Why would you want it to open anything other than TIFF?
Probably because you don't fully understand what this utility is for.

Besides the resizing and UI issues. Adobe's final mistake has been to give the utility an unhelpfully general name that is going to cause some confusion as to it's usage. Already there is someone on their forums complaining he can't print his 4x6 aircraft pictures properly with it. <sigh>
Logged
Richard Man
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 83


WWW
« Reply #122 on: December 08, 2010, 04:26:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Sure Sir, you are the genius :-)

I will leave this post for you to enjoy. I have better things to do than arguing on the internet.
Logged

madmanchan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2110


« Reply #123 on: December 08, 2010, 08:57:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Frankly, with the exception of the translation issues some are seeing (which can lead to critical parts of the target to get cutoff during the printing process), the rest of the stated concerns are non-issues. The tech note and accompanying ReadMe document clearly explain that the purpose of the software is to print targets without color management. Many profile targets (e.g., Bill Atkinson's excellent targets) are available in TIFF format, and existing PSD files can easily be converted to TIFF format.
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9185



WWW
« Reply #124 on: December 08, 2010, 09:02:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Probably because you don't fully understand what this utility is for.

Besides the resizing and UI issues. Adobe's final mistake has been to give the utility an unhelpfully general name that is going to cause some confusion as to it's usage. Already there is someone on their forums complaining he can't print his 4x6 aircraft pictures properly with it. <sigh>

Yup, no good deed goes unpunished. Yes there is a shifting bug but its not a big deal and anyone who would be using the utility for its stated purpose would unlikely find this an issue (or figure out how to fix it). I’ve never, ever seen a target for a profile in PSD format and as Eric says, it can be converted to TIFF. I wish the size were sticky but heck, I don’t really need to see the target, just hit print and be done. And I’ll say this again, the companies that should have built this software isn’t Adobe but those companies that need their targets printed for their creation of a paper profile.

The only other time I could see the need is if you ganged up multiple images in differing output color space onto one canvas to test say a rendering intent or profile setting (after which you’d use No Color Management in Print). I suspect few do this.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Ernst Dinkla
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2864


« Reply #125 on: December 08, 2010, 09:31:01 AM »
ReplyReply

The only other time I could see the need is if you ganged up multiple images in differing output color space onto one canvas to test say a rendering intent or profile setting (after which you’d use No Color Management in Print). I suspect few do this.

In case you really need that:

In Qimage you can nest the images on the same print page and apply different renderings and/or profiles to each image and print the total with CM-On. Or print them to file as a Tiff and load that Tiff in an application that can print with CM-Off like ACPU seems to do. Qimage can do the last too. Of course Qimage has LCMS as its color engine.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Spectral plots of +180 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm


Logged
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9185



WWW
« Reply #126 on: December 08, 2010, 10:12:09 AM »
ReplyReply

In case you really need that:

I need it to run OS X too...
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Ernst Dinkla
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2864


« Reply #127 on: December 08, 2010, 10:29:26 AM »
ReplyReply

You can't have it all.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
Logged
Eric Myrvaagnes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8064



WWW
« Reply #128 on: December 08, 2010, 11:38:37 AM »
ReplyReply

I think didjiman should definitely ask for his money back. Or maybe even double his money.  Wink
Logged

-Eric Myrvaagnes

http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
Richard Man
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 83


WWW
« Reply #129 on: December 08, 2010, 01:35:13 PM »
ReplyReply

You guys are funny and incredible.

Of course I know how to save TIFF from PSD.

The reasons I am using PSD is because I am printing digital negatives, not just profiles. Sure, I can save the results in the end as TIFF, but only it it is for a good reason and ACPU is not a good reason.

I am a software writer. I own my software company. I write C compilers for a living since 1984.

If I release a piece software as crappy as ACPU, I wouldn't be in business.

I just spent $80 on Qimage. Problems solved.

Logged

madmanchan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2110


« Reply #130 on: December 09, 2010, 08:32:53 AM »
ReplyReply

To be clear ...

ACPU was not designed to print digital negatives.

ACPU was not designed to open PSD, PSB, PNG, BMP, JPEG, or any other format besides TIFF.

ACPU was not designed to be pretty.

ACPU was not designed to make Adobe money or to keep anybody in business (it is free software).

Instead ...

ACPU was designed to be a free utility to print TIFF profile targets without color management, for the purposes of building (custom) printer profiles. To the best of my knowledge, with the exception of the translation issues some are reporting, it accomplishes this task.
Logged

Doyle Yoder
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 500


« Reply #131 on: December 09, 2010, 08:58:10 AM »
ReplyReply


ACPU was designed to be a free utility to print TIFF profile targets without color management, for the purposes of building (custom) printer profiles. To the best of my knowledge, with the exception of the translation issues some are reporting, it accomplishes this task.

As long a the printer driver are properly written and correctly turn off CM in the driver. We know that Adode Color Printing Utility must be listed in the Canon iPF drivers special casing file to turn off CM in the driver. But I will ask again, with Epson drivers that did/do not turn off CM when No Color Management is chosen in CS4, does ACPU change this with these same drivers or is CM being applied with these drivers?
Logged
MHMG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 623


« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2010, 10:06:15 AM »
ReplyReply

Eric, thanks for your summary. I think this thread has shown that, with possible exception of some subtle scaling issues, the utility appears to work as designed to do. As Doyle has noted, turning off CM in the printer driver successfully may still be an issue in some instances, but I was able to implement his recommended patch to Canon's special casing AppColorMatchingInfo.xml file and it works as it's supposed to in my case.

All that said, there still seems to be a serious CM problem when actually trying to use a properly built profile, at least for some of us PSCS5/OS10.6 users. Because there is more than one method of invoking CM even for a single Adobe app, like target printing, we should be seeing matching print output from anyone of these chosen paths, but I'm not getting that result, at least not for my Canon 8100. For that printer, I appear to have three pathways available (not including the 16 bit plugin pathway). I can 1) let Photoshop manage color and select profile and rendering intent on the preview page making sure CM in driver is off, 2) choose printer manages color and use colorsync, or 3) choose printer manages color and select "vendor matching" in the canon driver. Bottom line: I can't make any of these paths work right when using PSCS5. I spent a few hours trying again last night and found once again that I have to drop back to printing from ID to get output that matches the PS or ID softproof view with reasonable accuracy.  The ugly printed output I'm seeing from PSCS5 is not due to double profiling. Rather, the output looks like the source tag is being ignored.  In my testing the image was tagged with prophotoRGB but the output looks something like what you'd see if you stupidly reassigned an sRGB or monitor profile to the image and then convert to the destination profile.

I'm going to compare "printer manages color" to "photoshop manages color" on an Epson 3880 today. Perhaps my problem is an isolated canon driver issue.

Logged
MHMG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 623


« Reply #133 on: December 09, 2010, 12:12:05 PM »
ReplyReply


I'm going to compare "printer manages color" to "photoshop manages color" on an Epson 3880 today. Perhaps my problem is an isolated canon driver issue.



Ok, so I just ran some printer output tests with an Epson 3880. The good news for the 3880 driver is that PSCS5 "Photoshop manages colors" matches Indesign CS5 output now which is a result I couldn't achieve with the current Canon iPF8100 driver. The bad news is that "Printer manages color" is broken just like the Canon driver. Output looked like the source file's prophoto embedded tag was ignored in favor of an sRGB or monitor profile.

Based on this result, I'm inclined to agree with Doyle Yoder. A lot of Mac Snow leopard's new CM workflow issues seem to stem from incomplete or incorrect handling of Apple's new API by the printer driver.  Adobe apps may just be getting caught in the crossfire. Because some Adobe apps still "hijack" parts of the printer output workflow away from a colorsync/printer driver workflow when one chooses "let Photoshop manage color" or "let Indesign manage color" (ironically, there aren't any other options in ID as far as I can tell) we get a lot of convoluted results, but the problems may very well stem from the printer driver side of things.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Logged
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9185



WWW
« Reply #134 on: December 09, 2010, 12:16:53 PM »
ReplyReply

Ok, so I just ran some printer output tests with an Epson 3880. The good news for the 3880 driver is that PSCS5 "Photoshop manages colors" matches Indesign CS5 output now which is a result I couldn't achieve with the current Canon iPF8100 driver.

What did you get for max dE? With that test, I got an average of 0.33 but a max of 1.08. Seems high (higher than I got with other combo’s).

You used Photoshop Manages Color with Adobe RGB (1998) defined as the source>destination? Seems that works but not so well with sRGB.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
MHMG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 623


« Reply #135 on: December 09, 2010, 12:43:58 PM »
ReplyReply

What did you get for max dE? With that test, I got an average of 0.33 but a max of 1.08. Seems high (higher than I got with other combo’s).

You used Photoshop Manages Color with Adobe RGB (1998) defined as the source>destination? Seems that works but not so well with sRGB.

Andrew, I'm running a real pictorial image test using a profile built from a "vetted profiling-target-making path" that we've been discussing all along in this thread. The problem now (perhaps it deserves a a new thread) is that the output from the profile varies dramatically with the CM workflow path I choose. In other words, use the same profile but try to print from different apps or different workflow choices within an app, and you get different results. You don't need to measure the output, just look at it visually compared to softproof. When it misses, it misses by a mile!

So, for example, with my Canon 8100 I can't make PS and ID CS5 match no matter what I do, but ID output matches softproof visually whereas PS output looks like the embedded source file tag got ignored. In contrast, on my 3880 I was able to invoke a "let Photoshop manage colors"/NCA  driver workflow that matched ID output, but switching to a "let printer manage colors"/colorsync workflow produced junk that matched the canon driver problem. In a "let printer manage color" workflow under snow leopard, it looks like the embedded image file's tag (in my case it was prophoto) is being ignored in favor of an sRGB profile or the display profile (something similar to sRGB). Not good.

Why should I care about a "let printer manage colors" workflow if the "let Adobe app manage colors" works? Well, because it is the workflow that just about every other non adobe app I own requires!!!. I should be able to print from them with matching output when printing the same image using the same ICC profile and printer/ink/paper combo.



Logged
Doyle Yoder
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 500


« Reply #136 on: December 09, 2010, 12:55:09 PM »
ReplyReply

Ok, so I just ran some printer output tests with an Epson 3880. The good news for the 3880 driver is that PSCS5 "Photoshop manages colors" matches Indesign CS5 output now which is a result I couldn't achieve with the current Canon iPF8100 driver. The bad news is that "Printer manages color" is broken just like the Canon driver. Output looked like the source file's prophoto embedded tag was ignored in favor of an sRGB or monitor profile.

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

I do not think that the Canon driver understands what to do with Prophoto RGB when selecting "Printer Manages Color". Try sRGB or Adobe RGB once.

But really using PSCS5 "Photoshop manages colors" is the way to go. It works great. We just need to figure out why it is not working for you. When you choose PSCS5 "Photoshop manages colors" does the Main/Color dialog default to (grayed out) "No Color Correction"?
Logged
MHMG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 623


« Reply #137 on: December 09, 2010, 01:22:53 PM »
ReplyReply

I do not think that the Canon driver understands what to do with Prophoto RGB when selecting "Printer Manages Color". Try sRGB or Adobe RGB once.

Well, if it doesn't use the image file's embedded prophoto tag and make a conversion from source to destination, then what is it assuming for source...sRGB?. That's a serious bug.

But really using PSCS5 "Photoshop manages colors" is the way to go. It works great. We just need to figure out why it is not working for you. When you choose PSCS5 "Photoshop manages colors" does the Main/Color dialog default to (grayed out) "No Color Correction"?

Yes, I successfully implemented the update to the special casing file as per your recommendations. It works like you said it would. Double profiling doesn't seem to be my problem. I think the problem is due to the source file being in prophoto RGB. I will try running an sRGB tagged image, but if that works, it merely proves the point that the Canon driver for x100 series printers is broken (admittedly, Canon has made Snow leopard updates to the x300 series but not the x100 series so far). One would have to convert all images to sRGB, and that won't sit well with anyone shooting RAW and using extended color gamut working spaces like aRGB or prophoto.
Logged
Doyle Yoder
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 500


« Reply #138 on: December 09, 2010, 01:51:32 PM »
ReplyReply


Yes, I successfully implemented the update to the special casing file as per your recommendations. It works like you said it would. Double profiling doesn't seem to be my problem. I think the problem is due to the source file being in prophoto RGB. I will try running an sRGB tagged image, but if that works, it merely proves the point that the Canon driver for x100 series printers is broken (admittedly, Canon has made Snow leopard updates to the x300 series but not the x100 series so far). One would have to convert all images to sRGB, and that won't sit well with anyone shooting RAW and using extended color gamut working spaces like aRGB or prophoto.


I print from CS5 "Photoshop manages colors" using the driver for the Canon iPF9000 with the image tagged as ProPhoto RGB all the time. Prints always match the plugin or ID. I am assuming that your using the 2.13 driver, but I can't see that is is broken as I have never heard of this issue unless Main/Color Mode in the driver default to "Color" instead of "No Color Correction" If you go to the Main/Color Mode/Set dialog of the driver are there any adjustments set in there? Does this happen with any printer/paper profile you choose?

Being that the x100 drivers are the oldest of the 2.x drivers I would try installing one of the x300 drivers (but not adding it) to see if that will make any difference. When I installed the 8300 driver to see if it made any difference with the scrum dot problem, it did not replace the AppColorMatchingInfo.xml special casing file so I would not worry about that.
Logged
MHMG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 623


« Reply #139 on: December 09, 2010, 02:53:42 PM »
ReplyReply

I print from CS5 "Photoshop manages colors" using the driver for the Canon iPF9000 with the image tagged as ProPhoto RGB all the time. Prints always match the plugin or ID. I am assuming that your using the 2.13 driver, but I can't see that is is broken as I have never heard of this issue unless Main/Color Mode in the driver default to "Color" instead of "No Color Correction" If you go to the Main/Color Mode/Set dialog of the driver are there any adjustments set in there? Does this happen with any printer/paper profile you choose?


Ok, so I converted my test image to sRGB (this image was originally tagged in prophoto, but the scene colors were all in sRGB gamut range, so no color translation appeared on screen when I converted).  I also reinstalled the latest Canon 2.14 driver for my ipf8100 to make sure no corruption was present with the driver. Result: no difference at all. When printing from "photoshop manages colors" out of CS5, the colors are dull and don't match softproof at all.  Yet I can print from CS3 or from ID CS5 with excellent results and softprrof match when using this custom printer/ink/paper profile.  Based on these results, I now suspect that my problem is not caused by a failure to honor the embedded image profile tag. More likely it's a failure to invoke the chosen ICC profile for the destination space. Some other "default" profile may be getting used in in it's place. Very strange, and very time consuming to try to figure out what the problem is:

All I can say is that teaching students how to implement an ICC profile workflow is hard enough without having to throw in all of the software/firmware bugs that cause CM workflows to fail on real systems and on a daily basis in more ways than I can count.
Logged
Pages: « 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad