You should not be using a null transform technique to print targets from ID. ID has the capability to turn off CM. Use "Emulate Adobe InDesign 2.0 CMS Off" in the Color Settings menu.

Actually, based on a test just done, they produce the same results:

dE Report

Number of Samples: 930

Delta-E Formula dE2000

Overall - (930 colors)

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**Average dE: 0.19**

Max dE: 0.72 Min dE: 0.01

StdDev dE: 0.10

Best 90% - (836 colors)

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Average dE: 0.16

Max dE: 0.31

Min dE: 0.01

StdDev dE: 0.07

Worst 10% - (94 colors)

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Average dE: 0.39

Max dE: 0.72

Min dE: 0.32

StdDev dE: 0.07

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Note that the Emulate 2.0 target has not had time to dry down as much as I’d like (I think I’ll measure everything tomorrow). That one max dE of 0.72 is RGB 64/0/32, a dark tone which I’ve seen in the past and would attribute to dry down issues. Yes its close to 1 but I suspect by late tonight or tomorrow, the delta will be far lower.

But here’s the curious part. Lets assume for the time being ID using either method above is fine, how does this compare to using CS4 (No Color Management):

CS4 vs. ID5:

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**Average dE: 0.28**

Max dE: 1.06 Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.16

Best 90% - (836 colors)

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Average dE: 0.24

Max dE: 0.49

Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.11

Worst 10% - (94 colors)

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Average dE: 0.64

Max dE: 1.06

Min dE: 0.49

StdDev dE: 0.13

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These targets have dried a few hours, I don’t like seeing a max dE of 1.06! Interestingly its RGB values are 160/255/96, kind of teal green. Next worst offender at a dE of 1.03 is 255/128/0, an orange. I see the next 5 or so colors listed alternating between a green and orange with high deltaE’s over 1.

OK, how about

CS5 vs. CS4 (using CS5 null profile hack):

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**Average dE: 0.33**

Max dE: 1.18 Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.19

Best 90% - (836 colors)

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Average dE: 0.29

Max dE: 0.59

Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.14

Worst 10% - (94 colors)

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Average dE: 0.73

Max dE: 1.18

Min dE: 0.59

StdDev dE: 0.14

--------------------------------------------------

Again, not happy about the high max dE patches. The top 5 are all a teal green (192/255/96 or there about). These are all over a deltaE of 1.

OK, lets examine

CS5 with the hack vs. the new APCU product:

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**Average dE: 0.24**

Max dE: 0.75 Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.14

Best 90% - (836 colors)

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Average dE: 0.21

Max dE: 0.44

Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.11

Worst 10% - (94 colors)

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Average dE: 0.53

Max dE: 0.75

Min dE: 0.44

StdDev dE: 0.07

--------------------------------------------------

OK, this is what I expect to see among ALL the various products. Max dE of 0.75 (probably will be less tomorrow). But sort by max dE and again, a green (64/255/64). Next in line is very dark (0/22/0) which again I would attribute to dry down. Keep in mind that even if I printed the same target using the same print process, there will still be differences just from the iSis noise itself (I’d expect something in the range of 0.2 or less deltaE).

So we have CS5 and APCU producing what I’d call today, the same results. We have CS5 and CS4 not producing the same results but close. And ID5 is different still.

To round out the matrix, here is

ID5 vs. CS5:--------------------------------------------------

**Average dE: 0.33**

Max dE: 1.08 Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.16

Best 90% - (836 colors)

--------------------------------------------------

Average dE: 0.29

Max dE: 0.55

Min dE: 0.02

StdDev dE: 0.12

Worst 10% - (94 colors)

--------------------------------------------------

Average dE: 0.66

Max dE: 1.08

Min dE: 0.55

StdDev dE: 0.10

--------------------------------------------------

Worst offenders are green again (96/224/0) then an orange (255/128/0). Back and forth, green then orange, all at 1.0 or slightly below.

And lastly, to give you an idea of really low detla’s in the example just above, RGB 48/0/255 have a deltaE of 0.02! So yes, we can get really low values as the average dE figure provides. Its the max dE colors that I can’t figure out. Perhaps its printer, don’t know. Everything was output on a 3880 on Luster.

What would be really, really useful for many parties is if those of use with Spectrophotometers could test this matrix. If you don’t have ColorThink Pro, I can build the deltaE reports from saved CGATS files. Sorting by deltaE helps greatly as we can see, based on this one “standard” target (TC918) where in color space the errors are showing.