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Author Topic: Capture One 6 Released  (Read 12692 times)
Doug Peterson
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« on: December 01, 2010, 12:56:42 PM »
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Ladies and Gentlemen I'm very excited to announce Capture One version 6 has been released today by Phase One.

Press Release

Buy Now - 10% discount for Capture Integration customers

Opinion Piece: Thirteen Best Changes from Version 5

Easy to Navigate Video Intro Tutorials List

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 01:06:38 PM »
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Great News, but i've a question: i've purchase the upgrade from capture one to capture one pro in 29/09/2010, i do pay for the upgrade?

Regards

Antonio
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robgo2
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 02:25:21 PM »
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Doug,

I found your "13 best changes" to be interesting, but I would like to hear about certain other performance issues, e.g. noise reduction.  It is no secret that C1-5's NR was rather poor, especially when compared to the latest version of ACR.  Can you tell us if NR in C1-6 has been significantly improved?  It should have been a top priority.  Also, what about the quality of raw conversions/demosaicization?  C1 was already king of the hill, IMO, but have the wizards made it even better?

BTW, I am surprised that you did not include localized adjustments in your list, as this is something that Phase One is going to promote heavily.

Rob
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 02:31:13 PM by robgo2 » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 04:27:49 PM »
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Doug,

I found your "13 best changes" to be interesting, but I would like to hear about certain other performance issues, e.g. noise reduction.  It is no secret that C1-5's NR was rather poor, especially when compared to the latest version of ACR.  Can you tell us if NR in C1-6 has been significantly improved?  It should have been a top priority.  Also, what about the quality of raw conversions/demosaicization?  C1 was already king of the hill, IMO, but have the wizards made it even better?

BTW, I am surprised that you did not include localized adjustments in your list, as this is something that Phase One is going to promote heavily.

Rob

Kind of a secret to me! I find the noise reduction to be excellent; though as pointed out elsewhere the defaults for many cameras at high ISOs were not very good. If you change the defaults or create your own style (takes 1 minute up front) the noise reduction, in my opinion is best in class.
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 04:57:50 PM »
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BTW, I am surprised that you did not include localized adjustments in your list, as this is something that Phase One is going to promote heavily.

Basically I ran out of time! :-) There are several other features, local adjustments being probably the most notable, that I wanted to write about. But then the press release went out so my deadline was up! It may soon become "the 16 best changes" :-).
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2010, 05:10:45 PM »
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"oh, by the way kids, meet your new step-mother"
 Huh
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2010, 05:36:31 PM »
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"oh, by the way kids, meet your new step-mother"
 Huh

I.......

don't get it.
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 06:00:41 PM »
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Kind of a secret to me! I find the noise reduction to be excellent; though as pointed out elsewhere the defaults for many cameras at high ISOs were not very good. If you change the defaults or create your own style (takes 1 minute up front) the noise reduction, in my opinion is best in class.

This is certainly not my experience.  Even with careful adjustment of the luminance slider, it is common for C1 to smear detail as it reduces noise in high ISO images.  For this reason, I find it best to set luminance NR to zero and do serious NR using Topaz DeNoise.  ACR is far superior in this area, although I find its overall image rendering to be mediocre, at best.  In any case, I gather that you have not looked closely at NR in C1-6, as it did not seem to you to be of concern.  Understood.

I would really enjoy having first rate NR in the raw stage, so as to minimize the need for NR after conversion.  Topaz DeNoise is superb, but it is a step that I would just as soon do without for all but the noisiest images.

Rob
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 06:46:30 PM »
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Wow - local adjustments and printing - the two things I really wanted.  Fantastic!  The keystone adjustment and import of movies are a nice bonus, too.

Would love to hear more about the printing as compared to output from Lightroom...

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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 07:03:08 PM »
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Would love to hear more about the printing as compared to output from Lightroom...
here's an overview: http://help.phaseone.com/en/CO6/Output/Printing-photos.aspx
The screen preview is color managed (it doesn't provide the simulation of paper color though).
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2010, 12:02:41 AM »
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Kind of a secret to me! I find the noise reduction to be excellent; though as pointed out elsewhere the defaults for many cameras at high ISOs were not very good. If you change the defaults or create your own style (takes 1 minute up front) the noise reduction, in my opinion is best in class.

will it be difficult for you, Doug, to share with the community what is the right set of NR parameters in C1 v6 from your personal, subjective point of view for this rather simple ISO6400 raw file from Canon 5DmkII : http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E5D2/E5D2hSLI06400.CR2.HTM

thank you  Wink
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2010, 05:09:41 AM »
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One thing I missed in your points is the Capture Pilot.
Seeing images coming in on iPad and iPhone.
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2010, 05:24:04 AM »
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am i right in thinking this is not a free upgrade from 5?

EDIT: just seen the upgrade prices on the website. they seem good value Grin
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 05:27:09 AM by MrSmith » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2010, 12:13:29 PM »
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will it be difficult for you, Doug, to share with the community what is the right set of NR parameters in C1 v6 from your personal, subjective point of view for this rather simple ISO6400 raw file from Canon 5DmkII : http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E5D2/E5D2hSLI06400.CR2.HTM

thank you  Wink

Working on an article for next week on this topic.

With the right presets the noise reduction for such very hard files is very very good.
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2010, 02:32:59 PM »
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Working on an article for next week on this topic.

With the right presets the noise reduction for such very hard files is very very good.

I can't get the "grain" (when doing NR, not when trying to imitate some film of course) in C1 to be as "beautiful" as in LR when I deal w/ high ISO raw... to get a grainless high ISO image is not my target as the resulting visual smearing of the details will be too ugly (like Topaz Denoise does at some of its default presets, unless you will work its sliders manually)... so of course the look of the "grain" is subjective - but w/ ACR (LR) it is w/ quite uniform structure, unlike in C1... so I wonder whether it is my personal taste how it looks or I am missing something between 5 sliders (and sharpening sliders too) ?

here is what I like in ACR for example (not stating that this is the best of course) just to give an idea about (using the same publicly available ISO6400 raw file from imaging resources) :

direct link to full size screencopy = http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/861/acr1w.jpg





« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 02:38:02 PM by deejjjaaaa » Logged
robgo2
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2010, 05:01:20 PM »
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I can't get the "grain" (when doing NR, not when trying to imitate some film of course) in C1 to be as "beautiful" as in LR when I deal w/ high ISO raw... to get a grainless high ISO image is not my target as the resulting visual smearing of the details will be too ugly (like Topaz Denoise does at some of its default presets, unless you will work its sliders manually)... so of course the look of the "grain" is subjective - but w/ ACR (LR) it is w/ quite uniform structure, unlike in C1... so I wonder whether it is my personal taste how it looks or I am missing something between 5 sliders (and sharpening sliders too) ?

here is what I like in ACR for example (not stating that this is the best of course) just to give an idea about (using the same publicly available ISO6400 raw file from imaging resources)

In my limited experience using C1-6 on high ISO images and comparing it to ACR, I would agree that ACR gives a somewhat smoother appearing grain, but at the cost of greater image softening.  One has to be very careful in C1 with the luminance and surface noise sliders to avoid blotchiness and horizontal striping, especially in black areas.  Whether the end results are as good as those from ACR is a matter of personal preference, but C1-6 is now at least competitive in terms of NR.

Rob
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deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2010, 06:07:56 PM »
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In my limited experience using C1-6 on high ISO images and comparing it to ACR, I would agree that ACR gives a somewhat smoother appearing grain, but at the cost of greater image softening. 

Rogbo2, show where is the softening exactly ?... for once - post a raw conversion parameters in C1 v6 that are in your personal subjective opinion will deliver for this specific raw file results better than ACR (LR)... because you posted a lot of posts recently here and @ P1 forums - but no images, no raw conversion parameters...

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robgo2
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2010, 12:27:56 AM »
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In my limited experience using C1-6 on high ISO images and comparing it to ACR, I would agree that ACR gives a somewhat smoother appearing grain, but at the cost of greater image softening.  

Rogbo2, show where is the softening exactly ?... for once - post a raw conversion parameters in C1 v6 that are in your personal subjective opinion will deliver for this specific raw file results better than ACR (LR)... because you posted a lot of posts recently here and @ P1 forums - but no images, no raw conversion parameters...



deejjjaaaa, how did you miss the link that I posted in the Phase One Forum?  It had nothing to do with NR but rather with a comparison of Capture One 6 and ACR in terms of IQ.

Here is a 100% crop of photo of a compact disk (Mahler's incredible 9th Symphony) taken with a Pentax K-7, ISO 3200, 31mm, f2.2.  I have tried to equalize exposure and color balance as much as possible, but some differences persist.  Beyond that, I applied no adjustments and no sharpening.  Sorry for the sloppy cropping.  I don't believe that the high baseline level of noise shows very well in these web jpegs.  However, the difference in detail and sharpness in the two NR versions is apparent.  Understand that this is my best attempt to apply NR using two different programs.  Others with more skill may achieve superior results.  Zoom your browser for best viewing.

The NR settings were:  ACR--Luminance 25, Luminance Detail 50, Color 28, Color Detail 50
                                   C1-6--Luminance 24, Color 62, Surface Noise 72.



« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 12:48:21 AM by robgo2 » Logged
Gene Stryjewski
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2010, 10:45:40 AM »
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Doug,

Can you shed any light on the viewer problem I have and others have with the image not showing full view?
This has been talked about on the Phase One forum but without any response?

The image is cropped at the bottom missing about 25 Percent and right justified on the screen this also causes the
adjustment tools (local adjustment etc) to only work on the left half of the image.

I have tried all the suggestions from the users on the forum but on go.

I have a windows 7 box i7 64 bit 12 gig ram.

Thanks,

Gene
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2010, 11:19:36 AM »
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I can't get the "grain" (when doing NR, not when trying to imitate some film of course) in C1 to be as "beautiful" as in LR when I deal w/ high ISO raw... to get a grainless high ISO image is not my target as the resulting visual smearing of the details will be too ugly (like Topaz Denoise does at some of its default presets, unless you will work its sliders manually)... so of course the look of the "grain" is subjective - but w/ ACR (LR) it is w/ quite uniform structure, unlike in C1... so I wonder whether it is my personal taste how it looks or I am missing something between 5 sliders (and sharpening sliders too) ?

here is what I like in ACR for example (not stating that this is the best of course) just to give an idea about (using the same publicly available ISO6400 raw file from imaging resources) :

direct link to full size screencopy = http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/861/acr1w.jpg

Tricky area! Both programs are very good and it's great that these are the options photographers have now (as opposed to e.g. LRv1 which was just very poor at very high ISO rendition).

The raw file "test shot" referenced in this thread is a bit contrived given that we're talking about very high ISO dSLR images. I prefer, whenever possible, real world images. VERY few ISO6400 shots are taken with scientifically perfect exposure in a studio with front studio daylite balanced strobe on a tripod. These shots in real world usage are almost always hand held, have areas of under and over exposure, are taken in mixed lighting environments and very often include skin tone.

So I wrote my article using an ISO6400 shot from the 5D Mark 2 I did in a bar with off camera flash, handheld with a Canon 50mm f/1.2 lens. The exposure is relatively accurate (given the guerilla nature of the shoot) but the hands are a bit over exposed. It's under mixed lighting and requires a good bit of highlight recovery; to me this represents a very real-world use of ISO6400 on a 5D Mark 2.

You can read my article, download the raw file (or the 100% JPGs), and see my settings (including a download for a "Capture One v6 style" for ISO6400) here:
Capture One 6 vs. Lightroom Noise Reduction

I consider myself an expert user of both programs, but certainly by main expertise and bias are towards Capture One (one reason why I included the raw file). So please feel free to download the raw and let me know what revisions you might have to the LightRoom processing. Bear in mind that all comparisons are flawed in that you have to either A) match settings as close as possible which may not be getting the most from either program or B) do your best in each program. We do our best to be fair while trying to be realistic as well, but have included the raw file in case you disagree with our choices.

I agree LightRoom's grain rendition is very pleasing, especially since it requires zero change to the defaults. However, the grain structure of Capture One is quite pleasing to me as well. They are like two different film emulsions and each will likely look better for different files/scenarios. However, other areas of image quality that this article highlight are:
- highlight recovery (especially as pertains to highlight color accuracy in skin tones)
- tonal gradations (look at the abrupt line of color change on the models lower cheek in LR vs. C1)
- shadow color accuracy (look at the false color introduced in many shadow areas on the model in LR)
- lens corrections (especially chromatic aberration and purple fringing which are very common in these types of shoots since they are often shot wide open on f/1.2-1.8 lenses)

To me this represents a much more real world evaluation of the noise reduction and overall image quality of each raw processor for very high ISO shooting.

If an expert Aperture user would like to download the raw, and run some settings in Aperture I'd be happy to post a followup on the article on our website, or you could post it here and I can link to your post.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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