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Author Topic: Capture One 6 or Lightroom 3  (Read 36044 times)
StuartOnline
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« on: December 04, 2010, 07:07:09 AM »
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Yesterday I watch a live event on creativelive.com featuring Jeremy Coward. Most of his post processing was done using Capture One. Post processing seem to be very fast. My question, is there any real advantage of using Capture One over Lightoom? 
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 11:06:57 AM »
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Yesterday I watch a live event on creativelive.com featuring Jeremy Coward. Most of his post processing was done using Capture One. Post processing seem to be very fast. My question, is there any real advantage of using Capture One over Lightoom? 

Do your own test! Both have free trials.

Take some of your most "problematic" files (high iso, mixed lighting, lenses with lots of chromatic aberration, portraits of people with problematic skin tone) and run them through both pieces of software spending enough time to get over the initial "learning hump". This is a bit harder in Capture One since the program has customization of the UI and setting of your own defaults as two core principals where LR tends to have a more streamlined but less customizable workflow and benefits from being an Adobe product and therefore feeling immediately a bit more familiar to anyone who has used a variety of Adobe products in the past. The video tutorials on Capture One 6 are a great way to get that initial familiarity.

The color editor, and especially the skin tab of the color editor are IMO the best-in-class color tools available today. The noise reduction (see my recent article comparing Noise Reduction in Capture One and LightRoom), lens correction tools, shadow color accuracy, tonal transitions, color accuracy of highlight recovery (especially in mixed lighting) and absolute level of detail shown at low ISOs (independent from sharpening) are all areas you should investigate.

As well the speed at which you can get to your final product is important so take some time to read through online tutorials and articles specifically about speeding up your workflow (without lowering the quality of the final product). There are tons on LightRoom. Here is our Capture One 5 Custom Keyboard Shortcut Article (pending an update for Capture One 6) that will give you some idea of how to get through large edits in Capture One as quickly as possible.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/05/14/capture-one-shortcuts/

Just some random thoughts - we give 8 hour presentations on Capture One so you can imagine it's hard to cram a suscinct argument, which is why, in general we recommend you go and "do" rather than "hear". After all it doesn't matter what anyone else says if you don't see the difference.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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StuartOnline
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 11:24:35 AM »
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Do your own test! Both have free trials.

Take some of your most "problematic" files (high iso, mixed lighting, lenses with lots of chromatic aberration, portraits of people with problematic skin tone) and run them through both pieces of software spending enough time to get over the initial "learning hump". This is a bit harder in Capture One since the program has customization of the UI and setting of your own defaults as two core principals where LR tends to have a more streamlined but less customizable workflow and benefits from being an Adobe product and therefore feeling immediately a bit more familiar to anyone who has used a variety of Adobe products in the past. The video tutorials on Capture One 6 are a great way to get that initial familiarity.

The color editor, and especially the skin tab of the color editor are IMO the best-in-class color tools available today. The noise reduction (see my recent article comparing Noise Reduction in Capture One and LightRoom), lens correction tools, shadow color accuracy, tonal transitions, color accuracy of highlight recovery (especially in mixed lighting) and absolute level of detail shown at low ISOs (independent from sharpening) are all areas you should investigate.

As well the speed at which you can get to your final product is important so take some time to read through online tutorials and articles specifically about speeding up your workflow (without lowering the quality of the final product). There are tons on LightRoom. Here is our Capture One 5 Custom Keyboard Shortcut Article (pending an update for Capture One 6) that will give you some idea of how to get through large edits in Capture One as quickly as possible.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/05/14/capture-one-shortcuts/

Just some random thoughts - we give 8 hour presentations on Capture One so you can imagine it's hard to cram a suscinct argument, which is why, in general we recommend you go and "do" rather than "hear". After all it doesn't matter what anyone else says if you don't see the difference.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off


Doug,

Thanks a bunch for your interesting reply.  I already have Lightroom 3 and have been using Lightroom for a number of years. Also have given Aperture 3 a try. Both have pros and cons.  Never really took notice of Capture One until watching Jeremy Coward yesterday.
I have gone to their Website and started to view the many videos located on the site. I think I will take your advice and give the 30 day free trail a try.  Thanks again for your reply.

Stu
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James R
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2010, 11:32:49 AM »
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Yesterday I watch a live event on creativelive.com featuring Jeremy Coward. Most of his post processing was done using Capture One. Post processing seem to be very fast. My question, is there any real advantage of using Capture One over Lightoom? 

The learning curve is higher on C1 than LR3.  LL has a nice tutorial on C1 5 which might be a good starting point if you decide to use C1.  There are many things taught that I had to learn the hard way, by trial and error.

LR3 is a big improvement over LR2; however, there are things in C1 6 which look pretty exciting.  I plan to upgrade today.  So, I'm in the C1 camp, not an unbiased user.

Both programs can render great photos.  I find C1 does a better job, although LR3 is getting closer.  I prefer LR3 DAM functions over anything found in C1, which is not a digital asset manager--I have not messed with Phase One's Expression software yet to see if I prefer it to LR3.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2010, 11:48:39 AM »
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I much prefer the C1 approach when it comes to files management, I mean that Lightroom has it all in one package while C1 is separate and to me less intrusive. I now did get what EM can do, still I find it way too slow and frankly poorly designed. (really looks like a free Linux software). I can't wait Phase putting their people at work to release a 100% Phase version and not this "poor" remanent of Microsoft.

On the C1 5 version, the only criticism I can do is the way it handles sharpening. The default is too much IMO, but not only that, I found the sharpening engine in general not at the level of the rest of the program to the point that I by-pass it forever and do that task somewhere else. Maybe a step has been done in the 6th version. Now, C1 styles are amazing, I got a big collection now and it really helps the workflow.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 11:53:52 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Jack Flesher
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2010, 03:12:47 PM »
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With Lightroom you have a raw file and a small recipe stored in a database. With Capture one you have a raw file and a big TIFF file. Capture One is old think and Lightroom (substitute Aperture or Bibble Pro 5) is new think.
Erik


No, you clearly do not understand how C1 works. It maintains the raw in original form and adds an associated .cos file for the adjustment. You only generate a tiff in C1 if you tell it you want one, it does NOT automatically generate one for each of your images!   And by the way, if you do want one, it can be 16-bit or 8-bit or even a jpeg instead, OR all three (or even more) versions of the same file, with any variety of color profiles embedded, and any variety of sizes, with or without exif, watermarks, etc -- the possible combinations are endless.  But again, it only does the parts of that you want it to.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 03:53:32 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

fredjeang
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 03:24:10 PM »
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I am surprised too with the Erik post and confirm the Jack's post about tiff. C1 has never generated a tiff by itself. C1, as Lightroom, uses also a parametric image editing, so original is never alterated.

What C1 generates are datas stored in folder+sub-folder located in the same directory. You can access those files.

Ps: you made me doubt for a second so I check in the american society of media photographers and they confirm that C1 uses a non destructive image editing engine. I guess the same for Phocus. (by the way, the moire removal in phocus is IMO very efficient, just a parentesis in the thread)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 03:34:52 PM by fredjeang » Logged
tho_mas
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2010, 03:25:04 PM »
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Comparing Capture One with Camera Raw is more adequate than comparing Capture One and Lightroom.
Huh
You can compare ACR with the Quick Tab of Capture One... but certainly not with the entire application that is fully customizable (incl. keyboard shortcuts) and therefore offers a large variety of possible workflows.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2010, 04:11:37 PM »
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Hi Jack,

Thanks for pointing out that. I'm mostly using Lightroom and try to avoid using Photoshop, although I use CS5 now and than. I don't really see Capture One as a workflow solution, but I might be wrong on that. I guess that solutions tend to converge. I have checked out Capture one and even if I appreciated some of the features I felt it lacks the flexibility of Lightroom, so I decided not to use it.

I don't have anything against Capture One but I have always seen it as a raw converter and not as a complete workflow solution. I may be wrong on that and may need to reevaluate my view on the issue.

Best regards
Erik

No, you clearly do not understand how C1 works. It maintains the raw in original form and adds an associated .cos file for the adjustment. You only generate a tiff in C1 if you tell it you want one, it does NOT automatically generate one for each of your images!   And by the way, if you do want one, it can be 16-bit or 8-bit or even a jpeg instead, OR all three (or even more) versions of the same file, with any variety of color profiles embedded, and any variety of sizes, with or without exif, watermarks, etc -- the possible combinations are endless.  But again, it only does the parts of that you want it to.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2010, 04:31:12 PM »
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I much prefer the C1 approach when it comes to files management, I mean that Lightroom has it all in one package while C1 is separate and to me less intrusive. I now did get what EM can do, still I find it way too slow and frankly poorly designed. (really looks like a free Linux software). I can't wait Phase putting their people at work to release a 100% Phase version and not this "poor" remanent of Microsoft.
Microsoft made almost no significant changes to EM and it has very little Microsoft about it (just the Virtual Earth window). It was originally iView and was designed for the Mac and ported to Windows, and as such was very popular with Mac users.
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2010, 04:46:52 PM »
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I don't have anything against Capture One but I have always seen it as a raw converter and not as a complete workflow solution. I may be wrong on that and may need to reevaluate my view on the issue.



Hi Erik,

I guess it depends on your definition of "workflow."  And you are obviously entitled to your opinion of it as a tool for your needs, and only you can say which tool is better for you. But at the very least you should be aware C1 is far more than just a "raw converter," and at least speaking for myself, has become my primary image editing tool.  The most recent enhancements make it even more efficient.

Cheers,

« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 04:51:24 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

fredjeang
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2010, 04:47:19 PM »
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Well, Mac sometimes does not design the best (Final cut pro?). In fact it was like EM has stopped to evolve at one point. When I felt it "rather slow" I checked in my boss computers that are super powerfull and it was the same.I admit that my intitial impression was not good and it does not mean, of course, that the program is not good. But I think the Phase guys will do much better now they have it.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 04:50:56 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2010, 04:54:13 PM »
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Well, Mac sometimes does not design the best (Final cut pro?). In fact it was like EM has stopped to evolve at one point. When I felt it "rather slow" I checked in my boss computers that are super powerfull and it was the same.I admit that my intitial impression was not good and it does not mean, of course, that the program is not good. But I think the Phase guys will do much better now they have it.

Cheers.

Mac was Involved with Capture One ?  How long ago...i have never heard that ....just curious
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fredjeang
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2010, 04:57:48 PM »
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Hi Erik,

I guess it depends on your definition of "workflow."  And you are obviously entitled to your pinion of it as a tool for your needs, and only you can say which tool is better for you. But at the very least you should be aware C1 is far more than just a "raw converter," and at least speaking for myself, has become my primary image editing tool.  The most recent enhancements make it even more efficient.

Cheers,



Indeed Jack. But I think I got the Erik's point. The styles in C1 are super powerfull and it's true that more I built new styles, more my obliged move to Photoshop is reduced. But I guess that for people who want a "all-in-one" the Adobe product is more powerfull, but also more messy and needs a longuer learning curve, specially with the un-natural file management* and that is not tolerable in a pro configuration (I'm thinking in commercial here). That is why I've never seen so far a lightroom in use but C1 and Phocus, even when Phase cameras are not involved, C1 is there.
The philosophy differs, I'd say that if you are not working in a stressed pro environment and do not base your work in heavy retouching, go for lightroom. On the contrary, go for C1.

*I am aware that once you get use of the lightroom file management philosophy everything works fine, but I do not want such an integrated solution for certain reasons, others prefer it.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 05:02:58 PM by fredjeang » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2010, 11:36:32 PM »
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Jack,

Reading your postings I realized that I have far to little experience with Capture One to form an opinion. Thanks for putting things right! I really only wanted to help, but it seems I was just giving wrong information. I have removed my original posting.

Best regards
Erik



Hi Erik,

I guess it depends on your definition of "workflow."  And you are obviously entitled to your opinion of it as a tool for your needs, and only you can say which tool is better for you. But at the very least you should be aware C1 is far more than just a "raw converter," and at least speaking for myself, has become my primary image editing tool.  The most recent enhancements make it even more efficient.

Cheers,


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john beardsworth
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2010, 03:13:24 AM »
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I guess it depends on your definition of "workflow."  And you are obviously entitled to your opinion of it as a tool for your needs, and only you can say which tool is better for you. But at the very least you should be aware C1 is far more than just a "raw converter," and at least speaking for myself, has become my primary image editing tool.  The most recent enhancements make it even more efficient.
Reading your postings I realized that I have far too little experience with Capture One to form an opinion. Thanks for putting things right! I really only wanted to help, but it seems I was just giving wrong information.

It's more that "workflow" is a motherhood-and-apple-pie term that in the hands of marketeers means anything and nothing. The real difference between "traditional" raw converters like C1 and database-driven programs like Lightroom is the latter is a raw converter and a catalogue with DAM goals.

John
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2010, 04:51:52 PM »
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Jack,

Reading your postings I realized that I have far to little experience with Capture One to form an opinion. Thanks for putting things right! I really only wanted to help, but it seems I was just giving wrong information. I have removed my original posting.

Best regards
Erik




No worries at all Erik, I just wanted clarity for the OP.

As for the DAM component, no question that LR is a leader there.
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robgo2
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2010, 10:07:58 AM »
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To me, the biggest difference is in how the two programs render images.  Do your own head to head testing, and I think that you will see what I mean.  Don't just look for detail.  Look for clarity, color, and depth.  See for yourself which images appear more present and real.

In terms of workflow, LR's great strength has always been the integration of a host of features into a single program.  C1-6 is catching up and now even has local adjustments and printing, but it has not yet pulled even in this regard.  Still, many people like its simple, elegant interface and its very effective adjustment tools.

Download a free trial version of C1-6, and play with it for awhile.  It may take some time to understand its organization, but once you have, it is very simple and straightforward to use.

Rob
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 03:23:42 PM by robgo2 » Logged
vigorotaku
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2010, 02:48:27 AM »
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In an attempt to help people out I wrote up a short blurb on why I use Capture One Pro with a short quickstart of which videos to watch on Capture One to show you the power of Capture One compared to other applications if you are a Lightroom and Adobe Camera Raw user.

Check out http://vigorotaku.blogspot.com/2010/12/move-over-lightroom-here-comes-capture.html

I hope that you find this helpful.




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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2011, 07:30:24 PM »
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I use the DxO > DNG > Lightroom workflow and also wondered about that. From what I can find, there are two forms of DNG: RAW and linear. My understanding is that “linear” is a converted RAW image in TIFF-based format. DXO outputs DNG linear, so the RAW conversion has been completed in DXO. As a result, Lightroom does not do any RAW conversion of the DXO output, only additional editing of the converted image.
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