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Author Topic: Epson 9890 - price explains everything  (Read 10950 times)
narikin
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« on: December 14, 2010, 10:29:20 AM »
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Like many I was confused by the 9890 announcement - who would want a model identical to a 9900, but with 2 less inks?

well today "all ist klar": they are being offered at $2475 nett after Epson rebates with free shipping.

that's why they made it, though I still find it hard to justify the development costs and support /packaging/manuals etc, etc for an identical-but-different 44" printer model.  IMHO, quit confusing people and just go for broke with one model (9900) taking the economies of scale.  But... they are the ones in the printer business, not me.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 10:30:57 AM by narikin » Logged
Ori
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 10:56:09 AM »
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You don't really believe Epson are stupid, or want to confuse someone?
There are other considerations they regard when deciding on a new line of printers. for example: Digigraphie labs are committed to finish a series of prints with exactly the same ink used as the first print.
what if your 9880 is dead and you need a new printer? and you don't want the 180dpi heads, but the new 360dpi heads, and you have to use the K3 inks and not the HDR? this is where the 9890 fills the gap.

There is too much bashing Epson around this forum lately - is it this time of the year?
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narikin
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 11:07:01 AM »
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There is too much bashing Epson around this forum lately - is it this time of the year?

Presume you are referring to the other threads on this forum? 

I kind of agree, but... the endless clogging issue has been their Achilles Heel for far too long.
I've been with Epson  for 8 years, but am now running another brand (as well), so my loyalty is being sorely tested.



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Ori
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 11:18:44 AM »
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I'm a firm believer in the saying "everything has a price". a printer can't be that cheap and be the same quality as the other, at least twice as expensive. and no, it doesn't seem a brand-price issue.
Epson were chosen to be Digigraphie.... operators, by the Digigraphie committee for two reason; quality of print, and the promise that these clogging, dripping, killing-our-wallets heads, will print exactly the same way today and in ten years (if the printer survives, that is). whether it is true or false the visibility of the print quality is better or worse between Canon and Epson, or HP and Epson - it is not always about visibility. that is why you see a 9890, and probably see more of these "weird" versions in the future.

I, too, have a love-hate relationship with my printer (9900). A little bird told me that at photokina, a Canon representative told him that the new Canon's ink is fast pacing to the quality and gamut of Epson's HDR ink. Boy, if I were this guy's boss, I would chop his head off - but that remark says everything to me.
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narikin
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 11:23:28 AM »
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A little bird told me that at photokina, a Canon representative told him that the new Canon's ink is fast pacing to the quality and gamut of Epson's HDR ink. Boy, if I were this guy's boss, I would chop his head off - but that remark says everything to me.

I don't understand this remark - is there another way to explain it?

Canon's ink seems to have better longevity, (see Aardenberg) more scratch resistance, less bronzing, and better gamut in the important darker half of the plots than Epson's HDR inks.  So, not sure what your "little bird' was talking about.

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Ori
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 11:40:57 AM »
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My experience with Canon is null. What the man said is a quote. I too read the remarks and test at WIR and Aardenberg, and can't explain that remark entirely, but the remark was made. I'm waiting to see what the user experience, people here will have with the Lucia EX ink. maybe it will be better the Epson's Ink. Time will tell.
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narikin
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 02:44:18 PM »
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my point, Uri,  is that "fast pacing the quality" is not English.  Its a nonsense series of words.
thats why I asked.
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 02:59:06 PM »
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"fast pacing to the quality" makes more sense than 'fast pacing the quality'. The way I take that is that Canon is approaching the quality of Epson, which makes sense.
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Randy Carone
narikin
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 03:24:25 PM »
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"fast approaching the quality" - that makes sense.

Though I would say is no longer true: Canon has exceeded Epson in many cases - longevity, gamut, no blocked nozzles, and... price.

remember this is speaking as someone who's owned Epson printers for 8 years. I wish it weren't true.

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bill t.
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 07:33:23 PM »
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But for current wide format printer owners the price of Canon 8300 is only about $3000 through the end of the month, with the so-called trade-in-but-you-still-keep-it offer on top of a rebate.  I do love my 9880, but in the wee hours of last night I simply had one persistent clogged nozzle too many.  I had so hoped the 9900 would have fixed all that.  Sigh.

Thing is, I don't think I will benefit a nonce with the increased gamut since I mostly print on naturally gamut-limited canvas.  I am pretty sure the canvas prints coming out of a 9890 will look in no way different from those exiting the 8300 or the 9880.  Oh well, the sound of "12 inks" is bound to have some client appeal for my art buying customers.  Gawd...12 cartridges to stock...and buy!

But no clogs you say?  Oooohhh...clogless printing!
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Doombrain
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 05:58:05 AM »
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"fast approaching the quality" - that makes sense.

Though I would say is no longer true: Canon has exceeded Epson in many cases - longevity, gamut, no blocked nozzles, and... price.

remember this is speaking as someone who's owned Epson printers for 8 years. I wish it weren't true.



The gamut claim by canon vs. epson just isn't true. canon's pantone count vs. epson is 90% against 98%. also i like the way canon owners never bring up the cost of new print heads. very good Smiley
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jdoyle1713
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 06:50:52 PM »
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narkin- I Think you are off on that price..Epson has an instant rebate on it for dealer's .. That Puts it around 1k more than you posted.. Than Some dealers have a Golden Ticket (These where for rade shows) That some dealer's may be able to pass on for another Mail in rebate of $500.00 ..

If you got that Price of $2475..I would like to know where so I can get a few from them Smiley LOL

Cheers
Jim Doyle
www.shadesofpaper.com
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BobShram
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2010, 08:43:24 AM »
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If you got that Price of $2475..I would like to know where so I can get a few from them  LOL

Me two, well just the one will do for me.
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Ori
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2010, 11:11:38 AM »
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wow  Shocked

Narikin, I humbly apologize if my poor select of word/English offended you in any way. your tolerance to non-native speakers of English is amazing. And all that attention to details... inspiring. or is it only those who don't dislike Epson as much as you do?
It is not surprising at all Epson users are dissatisfied with Ink waste and head clogging (wacky UI decisions also IMO), but my response was to the "all ist klar" you mentioned, about Epson's reasoning for opting this printer - something not a lot of people know. 360dpi heads are a plus, support of thicker media, and, not to enter Ernst field (which I know nothing about), the benefit in the Epson head, where it doesn't heat the ink and the head is ceramic and not metal, is that the nozzle size does not change.ever. no head replacement necessary (unless other mishaps goes on the head - try not printing on a carpet). all around accuracy.  but hey, who needs it? you might disregard it, as the 4.5% difference in gamut in a test I saw on this forum, or almost 8% gamut difference in PANTONE, as stated before - but who sees it, right? or the 360dpi massive ceramic heads. or paper handling. or easy workflow with mirage. you're right. ink clogging is a killer to all those benefits. give me a cheap printer with cheap inks - and I'm hooked! I guess different people have different demands from their printer. I need a massive, reliable printouts, great gamut, tons of media option printer. good service is a plus. if I need to waste ink to have this, its a...well...a... relatively...small price to pay Smiley
disclaimer: all that I wrote is pro Epson, and not against Canon, which I have no experience with. They are all Japanese - and that's good enough for me.
P.S *cough* Epson representatives - if you see this - a new 4990 would be nice. Thank you Smiley
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 03:39:26 PM »
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Ori,

Good post - you made some excellent points. And, amazingly, I understood every concept you put forth. If English is your second language, it is better than my second language, which is none! Smiley By the way, I can't offer you a free 4900, just a good price on one (if you take delivery in the US).
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 08:44:07 PM »
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Hi there. Where did you find this test spec?
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BobShram
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2010, 08:23:33 AM »
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It is not surprising at all Epson users are dissatisfied with Ink waste and head clogging

I have been using Epsons for a number of years 7000, 9000, 2400, 4880 and hopefully soon a 9890. I have not had any head clogging issues to talk of and the machines are off for sometimes months at a time. Maybe I'm just lucky, because I don't do anything much in the way of maintenance that way. I'm am an engineer of heavy equipment and think I can tell the difference between a well designed piece of machinery and the rest, the larger Epsons are that well designed equipment. You can find things to winge and wine about on anything you care to think of, making well thought out remarks seem to bypass to many people on the subject. I'm half way convinced that some are paid to make some of the comments about rival manufactures, that or its like rival fans of football clubs. Anyway just to let you know I'm a happy camper with my Epsons. 
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narikin
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2010, 05:09:25 PM »
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Narikin, I humbly apologize if my poor select of word/English offended you in any way. your tolerance to non-native speakers of English is amazing. And all that attention to details... inspiring. or is it only those who don't dislike Epson as much as you do?

Ori - you are completely off the mark here:

I was being extremely polite and trying as carefully as I could to understand what you meant, without insulting your non native English. read this again, and tell me what is rude about it??:

I don't understand this remark - is there another way to explain it?
then when you just replied repeating the exact same phrase, and Randy chimed in with an interpretation that made not much  sense either (and he IS a native English speaker!) I decided to be to-the-fact:

my point, Uri,  is that "fast pacing the quality" is not English.  Its a nonsense series of words.
thats why I asked.

a simple google search for this phrase ("fast pacing to the quality") will show I'm right - it doesn't exist in English (ok Randy?) and all I was trying to do was ask if there was a different translation you could supply, so I could get the meaning.

Forgive me for trying to understand what it was you /your 'little bird' was trying to say and for politely asking if there was "another way of saying it"  And go to a cold shower, please!  Smiley


« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 05:12:01 PM by narikin » Logged
narikin
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2010, 05:10:40 PM »
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ps: I own 3 Epson printers. I don't know why you think I'm anti-them. 
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2010, 06:17:46 AM »
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The phrase may not exist in English, but I certainly caught the intended meaning. Lighten up. Peace.
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Randy Carone
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