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Author Topic: 16/35mm F2.8 on an EOS10  (Read 7274 times)
peterjones
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« on: November 06, 2003, 01:43:39 PM »
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Unfortunately I think if this lens hasn't already been discontinued it is about to be.
Also I agree totally it has edge to edge sharpness with film at any aperture,my point is that perhaps the light rays at full aperture is hitting the 10D sensor too obliquely rendering the image OOF at the edges.
Again though I will take on board your experiences and test it properly using text at the edges and if necessary take it up with Canon (whilst still under warranty yippee !!)
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Jeff Donald
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2003, 06:44:40 AM »
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Olympus claims it is more of a problem with the smaller chips.  Olympus goes to state, that is the reason for developing a new lens system for the E1.  This phenomenon is covered in the current issue of Popular Photography on page 64.
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peterjones
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2003, 04:45:09 PM »
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Ok folks I have had a reply back from Canon re this topic;despite the copying and pasting parts of my script and drawing of diagrams as I first thought Canon confirm that the problem is worse with smaller sensors than larger.

It is a problem that Canon are currently wrestling with and they intimate that perhaps the combination is not the most successful.

Now I wonder what the new Sigma 12/24mm will produce ?? Should be some interesting reviews
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Edward
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2003, 08:36:18 PM »
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It is hard to tell - it appears that the posted images were not sharpened, which is a necessity on the 10D.  A later poster said that he have sharpened some of the full size files and that it made a big difference.  Of course I also did not see any notes about tripod use or the other little things that help sharpness.
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peterjones
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2003, 04:37:36 PM »
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Maybe this has been covered by someone else but has anyone tried to use the 16/35mm F2.8 with an EOS 10D?
I know that the sensors have a problem with oblique rays of light but I was not aware how bad it is with this combination using the lens at any setting between F2.8 and 5.6.
At a given distance the centre is sharp whilst the edges are either OOF or badly reproduced perhaps because of the oblique light rays.(It can be mitigated of course with USM but that is hardly the point)
At apertures below F5.6 the lens is sharp edge to edge.Is this why Canon discontinued the lens soon after launching it?
With a larger sensor found in the IDS is this less of a problem?
I know the reasons why this is happening but I wasn't aware how bad it is in practise.
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dbarthel
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2003, 01:11:28 PM »
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The 16-35 is one of my favorite walk around lenses on the 10D and D60. Mine is tack sharp, although there ar stories that YMMV. There is barrel distortion, but easily corrected with software. I'd say do it unreservedly.
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Ray
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2003, 01:32:06 PM »
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Quote
Also I agree totally it has edge to edge sharpness with film at any aperture,my point is that perhaps the light rays at full aperture is hitting the 10D sensor too obliquely rendering the image OOF at the edges.
Light rays hitting the sensor at too oblique an angle was the reason sometimes given for camera makers not producing full frame sensors. If this was a problem, it would be more likely to show up in 1Ds images. As you know, the 10D crops the edges of the image.
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Ray
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2003, 06:09:53 PM »
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logically to me the problem would be worse with the smaller sensors rather than the larger
No! Other way round.  Cheesy
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peterjones
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2003, 07:47:18 AM »
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I would agree with Olympus.if the chip is smaller then it seems obvious to me that light would have to hit the sensor at a more oblique angle that if the sensor is larger.Anyway I have emailed Canon re this problem and will see what they come up with.Maybe as someone suggested it may be a dodgy lens,though it is peculiar as it is OK with film.
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dbarthel
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2003, 10:43:43 AM »
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Peter, get out a piece of paper and draw som lines from a center point to a plane. You will note that the further out you go from the center point to the plane, the more oblique the angle of intersection becomes. Since a full frame is much wider than the 10D sensor, the angle at the margins MUST be more oblique. The difference between a wide angle and a telephoto is simply how high the point is off the plane. So as focal lenght increases, obliqueness decreases. Just geometry.
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Edward
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2003, 06:31:59 PM »
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Could you tell us exactly what Canon said?
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Jeff Donald
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2003, 10:54:15 PM »
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Sorry for the early morning typo (that will teach me to try to type before that first cup of coffee).  In the last paragraph the article states Its narrower horizontal field of view, relative to the vertical axis also helps reduce edge effects.  I took this to mean smaller chips help make the edge effect less pronounced.  I typed smaller, when I meant larger.  Sorry for the confusion.
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dbarthel
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2003, 10:06:10 AM »
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Peter, the initial posts of the 12-24 at DP Review (yes, consider the source) indicate that the lens is a disappointment, and our only hope is a Canon L 12-24 designed for smaller sensors.

Dan
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scubastu
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2003, 04:53:30 PM »
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I have the 16-35L and use it a LOT with my 10D

1) The lens is not discontinued...it is still a current Canon lens.
2) I have shots with this lens at f4 - f5.6 and they are stunning. Blowing away film images I have of the same area. I have shot this lens a 2.8 on a film body and stil have sharp edges.  I was concerened about the softness issues that I pinned a newspaper to my wall and shot it at all lens aperatures and at 16-24-35 FL's.  I could read the every piece of text on the paper.

You may have a bad lens...

My 2 cents.

Stu
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peterjones
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2003, 05:12:45 PM »
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Have communicated with Canon re this problem and will tell you all here what transpires,logically to me the problem would be worse with the smaller sensors rather than the larger however as I am not a proud possessor of an IDS I will muse ......
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BJL
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2003, 07:04:55 PM »
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This phenomenon is covered in the current issue of Popular Photography on page 64.
  Ignore my previous question, I found it (November issue.) I do not see that Olympus is saying that the problem is worse with smaller sensors there, and elsewhere they have directed the complaint in particular at large sensors; full 35mm format ones in particular. One place I have heard problems reported is with the older Canon 17-35 on the full frame 1Ds, and with the FF Kodak 14n when used with some lenses.

   (Anyway, that Pop. Photography piece is very sloppy: for one thing, the name "4/3" refers to the cryptic 4/3 inch size specification, not the image shape. The shape could in principle could vary in other cameras from the 4:3 of the E-1, so long as the image circle diameter stays the same at 22.5mm.)
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peterjones
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2003, 02:56:05 PM »
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Here y'are then:

Thank you for your enquiry. I am sorry for the delay in replying.

Yes, ultra-wide lenses do appear to give softer edges to digital images
than to film images - but oddly, this only seems to happen with sensors
which are smaller than a 35mm frame.

We are trying to discover why this happens and hope to publish our
findings in EOS magazine.

It is possible to reduce the effect by sharpening the image in Photoshop,
but the 16-35mm lens is not one I would recommend for pictures of people
(though I appreciate your need for an ultrawide lens whenusing the EOS
10D).

Regards.


Robert Scott

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CPS Centre
The Old Barn, Ball Lane, Tackley,
Kidlington, Oxfordshire OX5 3AG
Tel: 01869 331741  Fax: 01869 331641

Happy reading !!
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