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Author Topic: Coating Canvas with a Roller - Dust / Hair?!?  (Read 6038 times)
Craig Murphy
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2010, 09:32:13 AM »
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I spray 30% thinned with water Valspar Clear Protector Satin ($7!! a qt from Lowes) out of my Wagner.  It 'Protects Paint, Faux & Texture Finishes..Crystal Clear, Non-Yellowing...Seals Out Stains and Fingerprints.'  Maybe there is an upside to paying $100 a gallon for something else but I'm not seeing it yet.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2010, 12:09:06 PM »
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I've finally thrown in the towel as far as roller brushing on big canvas prints. I have been using a solvent-based lacquer, but have decided I can't deal with the toxicity and the fumes. Solvent based lacquer does however seem to have better leveling properties than water-based coatings.

I went to Lowes yesterday and bought a gravity feed spray gun that claims it can handle latex paint ($59). I've got a 1.5 horsepower air compressor with 4 gallons tank capacity. The gun requires 60 psi to work. I just ordered a quart of Glamour II.  I've got a space in my studio with 12 feet of wall space that butts up to 12 X 8 feet of flooring that I'll cover with plastic.

I hope this set up works. I'm sick of dealing with stinky lacquers, uneven coatings, hairs, bubbles, and fumes.


Bob,
Although I much prefer spraying you should not have the problems you are having with rolling Glamor II. When you use the term roller brushing in your first sentence I hope you mean just rolling.
Strain your product and roll it on,it does a supurb job. One of Glamors best attributes is its self leveling properties. I would like to stand over your shoulder and watch you apply several coats,am sure I could help.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 12:14:45 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

BobDavid
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2010, 01:58:48 PM »
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Hi Dan,

Actually, I haven't used the Glamour II before. I've tried Clear Shield and Eco Print Shield. I couldn't get either of those products to coat a canvas larger than 24" X 36" with a roller and get a flawless surface.
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 04:00:29 PM »
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IMHO, if it were the difference between a $700 fictional Wagner and a Fuji $1000+ system, you might give pause for thought.  But the Wagner costs about US$75 and really isn't a bad choice for low volume.  If you want to upgrade, the "loss" put into the Wagner won't make you cry a bit.

I see that Breathing Color recommends a Fuji 2903-XPC Mini-Mite 3, which is about $550 US. I can pick up the Wagner we've been talking about locally (Rona) for about $110 CDN. It does seem like a good first step, and the unit can serve as a backup if I upgrade down the road.

Just curious. What would I find different in using a $500 to $1000 unit, as opposed to the inexpensive Wagner?

Terry..
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Rocco Penny
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« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2010, 01:01:12 PM »
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I'm not too sure this will help,
I have no real artist's experience
I have used many different spray rigs with many different materials
There isn't any real benefit to using a more expensive compressor, sprayer, hvlp set-up, etc.
EXCEPT that by using quality tools and materials you can easier predict desirable results.
So using the cheapest option doesn't preclude your good results.
If you were to have a 4 horsepower conventional compressor capable of delivering 4-6 CFM, and a small hvlp gravity top feed cup gun 
with 3 setting screws for air flow, material volume, and fan width and interchangeable spray tips,  you could use almost any material you wanted.
Depending on the coating, thinning to a sprayable consistency is probably necessary.
All this could be achieved for well under the least expensive option yet proposed besides a wagner homeowner's model destined for some shelf to be disused until one of your relatives declares it a living monument to your frugality and tosses it out with the other junk you collect in this life.
A nice compressor and cup gun on the other hand is as useful as the craftsperson using it.
 Spend a few more dollars if you can afford it to be sure you have a tool worth bothering with.
My unqualified opinion only.
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bill t.
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« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2010, 01:04:28 PM »
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Just curious. What would I find different in using a $500 to $1000 unit, as opposed to the inexpensive Wagner?

Looking at a correctly finished canvas made either way, probably nothing!

But for volume work, there are big advantages to a professional unit with a separate turbine...

The Wagner's tiny filters are located too close to the nozzle and clog quickly.  You have to clean them pretty often to keep a reasonable air flow available.  (One work around is to cover the inlet ports with a layer of the air filter stuff made for home heating systems, rubber band it on.)  But with a separate turbine you can locate it upwind or in another room and the filters stay clean for a long time...which means a consistent, predictable airflow, always.

With my trusty Fuji, I can spray a one foot or 300mm wide, heavy swath of paint at almost one square foot per second (takes practice!).  It makes a difference when I've got 3, 4x8 foot panels of prints to paint and am also hammered by other chores.  Takes a gun with precise nozzle and pattern adjustments, which the Fuji has.  The Wagner has only a one-size-fits-all adjustment and can't provide that much volume or width.  And the Wagner would be significantly filter-clogged after the first panel, that's my main gripe.

But honestly, if I only had a Wagner, I could probably stagger through heavy production somehow, although I would be quite a bit more grumpy at the end of the day than if I were using the Fuji.

**************************

As for having trouble rolling largish prints, amen to that!  But usually the problem is that you're not getting paint onto the canvas fast enough.  You have to pour the paint right on to the canvas, then roll it out.  You can't transfer paint onto the canvas fast enough with the pan-to-roller-to-print technique.  Also if you put down really thick wet coats that buys you the time you need to get a large surface coated before the paint starts setting up.  Most rolling problems come from the paint going tacky while you're still rolling, so wetness is you friend.

As a ballpark figure, calculate the entire area you need to roll, which includes a few inches on either side of the prints.  Measure out about 0.004 ounces per square inch of coating into a cup.  That's about what it takes to get a nice, wet surface.  Oh, and if the roller is dry, you will need another 2.5 ounces (75ml) of paint which is what my 6 inch soaks up, your roller may vary.

Part of the art of rolling is to figure you how long you can roll without leaving marks that won't level out.  You can go just a little bit past the point where the paint starts getting tacky.  You might want to do this kind of extended rolling if you get pinholes, you need slightly tacky paint to fill in persistent pinholes on a single coat.  You need to use very little pressure towards the end.

I can think of no human endeavor which benefits more from a little in-person instruction than canvas rolling.  As Dan mentioned, he could probably get just about anybody coating canvases correctly with nothing more than a few pointers and couple sharp slaps across the face!
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 01:07:27 PM by bill t. » Logged
Roscolo
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2010, 12:29:26 PM »
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doesnt spraying canvasses on floors create uneven coatings due to the indirect angle of the spray against the canvas?

Not at all, because there is no indirect angle. I'm spraying directly over the canvas directly down onto the canvas, about anywhere from 18"-24" away. Even if the angle were indirect, unless you just really screw it up the coating levels itself fairly well. That's what's great about the Wagner. You literally would have to try to intentionally screw it up, and even then you would probably get an acceptable result. I put on 2-3 coats 10-15 minutes apart and I'm done. Someone said something about a filter that could clog on the Wagner, but I've not seen it. The model I have you can remove all the parts at the end and can clean it very thoroughly, quite easily. I usually clean mine immediately after spraying, but I have left it sitting there unused for a couple of days one time, and it still cleaned up very easily with just warm water and a tooth brush and I use a tooth pick to pick out any bits of coagulated product in the tip of the gun. At the end of the day, the Wagner is cheap and fast and my finished prints are perfectly even. Hard to get better than perfect. Smiley
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KevinWilliams
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2010, 04:29:15 PM »
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I know clearstar does not recommend wagner sprayers. They prefer grayco or husky.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2010, 12:03:58 AM »
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I know clearstar does not recommend wagner sprayers.

I don't use clearstar, but if you're spraying the waterbase Clearshield original, the Wagner should be just fine. Wagner is only $55, so even if you don't like it, you're not out anything compared to those other units that are $400-$1,000. If you don't like it you can always give it to the brother-in-law for Xmas, or just return it and get your money back.  Spraying water-base the results are perfect with the Wagner, and really, REALLY easy. Easy + Cheap + Perfect = Smiley
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fetish
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« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2010, 11:00:35 AM »
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yea wagner is the way to go.
it's cheap enough to be disposable but good enough to get most jobs done.

if you're afraid of filter clogs, get the Control spray max and position the main intake far away from your spraying area.  Wink
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Justan
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« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2011, 02:27:43 PM »
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Make very wet coats that take a while to set up.  The painted surface should look smooth like the surface of a pond.  That way you have time to pick off hair etc with a tweezers without leaving marks in the coating.  You can also slide a thin pin like a hat pin under hairs, as soon as lift a bit of the hair out of the paint, press it against the pin with a finger to extract the rest.  But WET is the key here.  If you only discover a hair when the pain is getting tacky, you might be best off removing it after the paint dries which will generally leave less of a marred surface.

Carefully clean the dry roller before use.  Tap the entire surface of the roller with a piece of masking tape to pull off any dirt and especially to pull off any loose foam.  There is usually loose foam on the rounded sides.

Tape the print down on a very clean surface, and wipe everything clean with a slightly moist towel before coating.  Remember the the roller will need to go considerably past the edges of the prints, make sure that area is clean as whistle.  Sometime before the print is completely dry, remove the tape so the print does not pincussion towards the center.

Try to nail it with one single coat.  If you do multiple coats, there is a tendency to pick up partial dried drecks of paint along the edges from the previous coating session.  And it is very hard to cleanly remove a piece of unnoticed crud from under a top coating.

Thanks for this great guide!

I'm looking into coating some 24 x 60 canvases and don't have a suitable location to spray (its 25 degrees outside). What do you recommend for a roller for coating larger areas?

BTW there is what appears a good video here: http://www.breathingcolor.com/bc/catalog/includes/sts_templates/g2faq.htm
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Neuffy
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« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2011, 05:29:08 PM »
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I've been using the Wagner Control Spray for around a year, making prints between 16x20 and 40x80.

For a single 16x20? No problems at all. Easy, nice - if that was all I was doing at a time I'd never upgrade. Larger prints or large numbers of prints however have been a huge pain. Simply, the speed of coating is too low due to both the width of the spray pattern and the actual amount of varnish being applied.

Just picked up a Fuji Q4 Gold last week, largely upon bill t.'s recommendation corroborated with a number of other sources. First impressions are that it's worth every penny. The 61db decibel rating is like a standard vacuum - I can have a conversation with somebody who is 4 feet from me with the turbine 20 feet away from us without anybody raising their voice.
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kdphotography
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2011, 08:27:22 AM »
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The Fuji is the way to go long-term.  If you have the Wagner Control Spray, it's worthwhile to do periodic maintenance.  Those air inlet filters are no more than a whopping two dollars.  See, http://www.gleempaint.com/control-spray-parts.html    I just saw a "special" for about $20, you can buy an extra Control Spray "gun".... to attach.
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mburke
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« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2011, 06:55:42 AM »
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I purchased the Wagner and tried to spray a canvas that I mounted to a large cardboard piece using Glamour II. I guess I didn't know what setting to put the sprayer on because the stuff left huge run marks all over the canvas. Is there some trick to setting the sprayer correctly. I watched the video on how to spray from Breathing color (hold sprayer straight, move arm not wrist, etc), results were bad.

I live in Northern Wisconsin and try to spray in my heated garage in the winter.

Any advice?

Mike
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2011, 07:07:13 AM »
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I purchased the Wagner and tried to spray a canvas that I mounted to a large cardboard piece using Glamour II. I guess I didn't know what setting to put the sprayer on because the stuff left huge run marks all over the canvas. Is there some trick to setting the sprayer correctly. I watched the video on how to spray from Breathing color (hold sprayer straight, move arm not wrist, etc), results were bad.

I live in Northern Wisconsin and try to spray in my heated garage in the winter.

Any advice?

Mike,
2 tricks. The setup you should get the hang of pretty quick. You should have spray pattern and volumn knobs. Set your spray pattern to a nice wide 4 to 6" fan,again trial and error. Then turn the volum down to a little more then a mist. Just do  small changes and your results will improve with practice. The second part of this is learning how to spray. Some pick it up easily. It does have a learning curve. Watch the you tube videos and I am sure it will help alot. I would use bare canvas and learn how to get a good finish without runs. Then try spraying your (smaller) prints
If that fails,come to Pa. and take  my workshop. Will have you spraying like a pro in several hours.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 08:08:32 AM by Dan Berg » Logged

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