Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Starting off  (Read 2745 times)
Justinr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1010


WWW
« on: December 25, 2010, 08:21:35 AM »
ReplyReply

I was asked last night if I would do a promotional video for a local small business and despite my claims that I don't do video the guy was insistent, so it looks as if I ought to start.

But how and where?

I'm planning a Pentax K5 in the spring and I've seen a couple of short videos shot with it and I'm reasonably impressed but is shooting a video on a dSLR a bit like doing a full blown wedding on a compact? Yes it will do the job but it still leaves a lot to be desired. And if I should go the full blown video camera route what features should I be looking for as a minimum bearing in mind that the budget will probably not stretch to much more than a second hand entry level pro model?

Down the workflow line I'll probably need to look at software and perhaps a hardware upgrade, any advice on these points also welcome.

Many thanks

Justin.
 
Logged

Chris Sanderson
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1906



« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 01:43:24 PM »
ReplyReply

Maybe you could consider a m4/3 Panasonic like the last GH2. If Chris Sanderson bought one it should tell you that the camera is very capable.
Good recommendation - but give yourself some time to come to terms with the GH2. We will be publishing some GH2 video user information later next week as Michael & I continue to shoot video with the cameras.
Logged

Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
Justinr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1010


WWW
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 06:14:10 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks Fredjeang, that's just the sort of advice I was looking for to get the thoughts rolling. Pentax would be the preferred way forward if possible as that is what I have. I had an idea that swapping to video involves more than just pressing another button and I fear it may take even more than I imagined.

Justin.
Logged

Rhossydd
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1925


WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2010, 10:30:57 AM »
ReplyReply

I was asked last night if I would do a promotional video for a local small business and despite my claims that I don't do video the guy was insistent, so it looks as if I ought to start.
As a professional you should consider what the potential benefits and pitfalls to your business of moving into video.
Firstly; It will require a significant investment in hardware and software, will you see that investment returned ? Is there going to be enough business to support that level of investment ?
Secondly; Having made the investment in kit, you'll then need to invest a lot of time learning to use it. Would that time be more profitably spent developing your existing business ?
Thirdly; If you rush into it and get it wrong will it harm your existing business reputation? (ie would your reputation be better if you simply recommended someone more experienced?)
Fourthly; Will your market be prepared to pay a fee sufficiently high to make a reasonable profit ?
Quote
is shooting a video on a dSLR a bit like doing a full blown wedding on a compact?
No, that would be a walk in the park in comparison. An experienced wedding photographer ought to cope with a compact relatively easily as much of the skills aren't particularly about kit, but people and knowing how to get the clients expect.

Video production is a whole different discipline. Besides the basics of camerawork and lighting, you'll need good skills as a sound recordist/mixer and video editor.
Then you'll also have to deal with distribution issues. How will it be used ? Just on the net ? DVD/BR ? or for broadcast. Each has very different requirements.
Starting cold from square one has a steep learning curve.

Sorry for the reality check, but it's not fair to suggest that any of this is simple or easy in a business context.

Paul
Logged
Justinr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1010


WWW
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2010, 10:58:01 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the reply Paul and certainly the business based questions you list are pretty much the ones that have been running through my mind. What I have now is hardly what you might call a business anyway and there are excellent reasons for keeping it low key for now. Having said that I will need to decide this spring whether to run with it or not and if so in what direction. Setting myself up as an instant all purpose videographer is simply not practical or realistic I know, but shooting small scale videos to accompany websites and to go on Youtube  may be an opening into moving pictures. Let's face it, still pictures hardly pay and 75% of what I do with the camera is for websites anyway. I live in an area which is err..... very traditional in its purchasing patterns and offering the same (even if better) as established traders is a thankless task, I need to cover ground presently left untrod by local businesses.

Logged

Rhossydd
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1925


WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2010, 11:27:22 AM »
ReplyReply

I need to cover ground presently left untrod by local businesses.
A good strategy certainly.
Adding video if you already have the kit and have a basic competency in it's use ought to be a good business strategy in the longer term. BUT I'd strongly caution against jumping in on the basis of a single job offer.

On a positive note; If you were going to get a video enabled DSLR anyway, it makes sense to explore the video options and see what you can achieve. Picking up a cheap editing package like Sony Vegas media studio or Pinnacle on a PC or iMovie on a Mac, will allow you to learn the basics of video editing without inuring excessive costs. You'll soon see the difficulties and once you've put together a few trials it might be worth offering a freebie on the back of another stills job to see what's possible in a commercial context. You can use that as a learning experience and hopefully as a showreel to get further profitable work.
What is important is not to under sell in this market or everyone looses out.
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2010, 11:30:51 AM »
ReplyReply

I agree with Paul.

In my case, this is now part of my personal lenguage and I'm focussed in art gallery, wich is a totally different scenario and as more to do with independant film makers (although it is not either).
So I'm not offering services to anybody except myself. It's very important not breaking prices because we are already suffering a bombing of "everyone's a photographer or a videographer and works for almost nothing".

But if you want to enter in that room as a pro offering his services, that is heavier.

I'm always amazed how we photographers are really talking about low budgets and equipment cost compared to other professions. I have a friend who is carpenter and had to invest a lot more money just to start his little business in machines, than all the Phase One backs and co. Photography is a rather cheap business. Video prod is another story.

But who knows? big rivers are starting with nothing. But more reasonably, you will be able to do some stuff here and there but then it will take you a lot of hours (like I'm experimenting right now), learning curve is very long, results difficult to acheive. Are you preapared to make that step and sacrifice a lot of your time?

Some pros here have big enough structure to surrownd themselves with proper team and delegate. But if not, this is indeed a hard hard path. But very interesting I must say.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 08:21:49 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Rhossydd
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1925


WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 04:40:13 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm always amazed how we photographers are really talking about low budgets and equipment cost compared to other professions. I have a friend who is carpenter and had to invest a lot more money just to start his little business in machines, than all the Phase One backs and co.
Not sure that's a good example to choose. Woodworking machinery lasts a very, VERY long time, so the investment can be spread across decades.
Quote
Photography is a rather cheap business.
I'm sure there are many photographers would would disagree with this notion. Buying into a pro camera system, lenses, lights, support kit, computers, printers etc isn't a small investment and in recent years the useful working life of kit has plummeted compared to the expectations of 30 years ago.
Making as decent living from it, with increasing competition from vanity hobby photographers, just keeps getting harder.
Quote
Video prod is another story.
Curiously some areas of video production need less investment than stills, working at the low end with an EX3 isn't terribly expensive in comparison. However the costs of broadcast standard kit would make your carpenter shake. The very high end is the preserve of rental and facility companies only. I very much doubt any individual owns one of Canon's 100:1 broadcast zooms.

Paul
Logged
fredjeang
Guest
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 10:26:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Found this store: http://www.bcs.tv/store/prod_brand.cfm
Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2217


WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 11:04:28 AM »
ReplyReply

I think you need to know what you are trying to do and the limitations of your kit

Video kit goes wild fast in terms of cost

for example I would be pretty happy that I could make something 'of value' simple kit..

-single 'kit' zoom lens or a normal and wide prime
-a DSLR or GH camera
-a simple mic like the rode video mic
-a still tripod

I would do three interviews somewhere quiet, camera stationary on the tripod
I would then collect a heap of 'b roll' being 'stuff going on'
again I would shoot this as a series of moving stills, camera kept still, no pans or anything

the piece is created by cutting the interviews into a sound track and laying the B roll on top

eg interview.. 'we have invested $1m in a new earth mover' - cut with footage of new earth mover moving earth over the interview sound

you should practice this before going out 'paid'

As you introduce more kit (should you choose to) you open more options, pans and tilts with a video tripod,
sound in other environments with a recorder
focus aids to follow moving things
stabilisers dolly track etc to do shots that the camera moves

The key is not to do stuff your kit cant do video is super sensitive to technical errors, shake, wind noise, etc

S




« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 11:06:46 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
canmiya
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 158


WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2010, 01:51:56 PM »
ReplyReply

I was asked last night if I would do a promotional video for a local small business and despite my claims that I don't do video the guy was insistent, so it looks as if I ought to start.

But how and where?

I'm planning a Pentax K5 in the spring and I've seen a couple of short videos shot with it and I'm reasonably impressed but is shooting a video on a dSLR a bit like doing a full blown wedding on a compact? Yes it will do the job but it still leaves a lot to be desired. And if I should go the full blown video camera route what features should I be looking for as a minimum bearing in mind that the budget will probably not stretch to much more than a second hand entry level pro model?

Down the workflow line I'll probably need to look at software and perhaps a hardware upgrade, any advice on these points also welcome.

Many thanks

Justin.
 

 I would encourage you while considering equipment, to think about the specific project and develop some ideas and at least a conceptual framework.  I think this might assist you  in:  Figuring out what equipment you need (type of stabilizer, sound equipment...); whether you need to involve others who have specific skills; understanding budget, licensing, and  overall pricing; and   understanding how straightforward or involved the project may be or could become.  This approach may also be helpful to your client in terms of identifying or clarifying expectation as well as any role he may need to play in the production; and   fleshing out the not so obvious costs. 

While there are very sophisticated clients who understand the nuances of video production, there are an increasing number looking for video who think that production is as easy as starting and stopping a Flip, and uploading directly to YouTube. 

I would recommend that  you to get the camera well in advance of the shoot and  learn its operation under the conditions you are most likely going to be shooting your project  as well as determining your setting preferences.  I firmly believe that the success in shooting HDSLR video is tied to the operator being comfortable with the camera and knowing what it can and cannot do. The other key success element is content and content presentation. To this end,  I would  suggest that you spend time thinking about/developing story-theme related materials and shot details.   

As far as software goes, Paul's suggestion regarding inexpensive but robust programs, is a good one.  If you are a PC user, Sony and Pinnacle( as well as Corel and Cyberlink) offer free trial periods. Just check the system requirements to make sure your hardware is compatible.  If you are not comfortable with the editing component, don't be shy in seeking help.
Regards
Logged
canmiya
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 158


WWW
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 02:48:02 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm not really sure I'd follow you guys on the Pinnacle as a good choice.

Bad, it certainly isn't. It should be compared to a Premiere elements.

But the fact is that being a site of photographers, the Adobe environement is very familiar for a lot of people, logical and highly integrated.
You can't get wrong with Premiere.

Pinnacle Studio HD has different version and it is a little bit surreal that the keying for example is found on the most expensive version.

Again, I'm not criticizing Pinnacle as a bad choice, but I'd go directly starting from zero, to Adobe.

Today I had some stuff with tracker to stabilized  Huh a cut and it works just straightforward with After Effects. But it's true that done the same job with Autodesk it was another story (much more precise).
But the integration between Adobe products is indeed difficult to beat to date.

IMO.


I think that different photographers have very different interests and appetites for editing.  Some want to be very involved and really develop the skill and others may look at it as something that someone else is brought on to do--there is of course a middle ground.
 
My point is less about recommending a specific software, but more about the fact that there are software options for those starting out or testing the water that don't involve significant resources.
Logged
Justinr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1010


WWW
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2010, 04:04:47 AM »
ReplyReply

Gentlemen, Many thanks for the input and advice here, it really is appreciated.

To be honest this is not the first time that going into video has crossed my mind but it is perhaps the closest I've got to thinking seriously about it. I always felt that it was altogether a bigger beast than stills but I hadn't realised just how much hairier until I started considering the replies given so far.

Most of my photo work is now directed towards the websites I do and the videos would be an extension of that, short 30 second bursts of moving pictures and no more, for I believe that peoples attention span when browsing sites is very much shorter than when looking at printed media or the TV. The particular job I mentioned is still an unknown quantity and I am waiting for the fellow to come back to me with more details. It may come to nothing or be the start of something, there's no telling at the moment. Certainly full on broadcast quality filming is not where I am presently aiming but I am a firm believer in using the right tool for the job which is is why I hesitate over using a dSLR for motion pictures rather than a proper video camera.

Anyway, thanks again, I shall be going over again all that has been posted here so far.


Justin.
Logged

Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2217


WWW
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 09:49:30 AM »
ReplyReply

There is nothing that is not 'proper' about a DSLR as a video camera CHIP

the image gives any other sub $10k video camera a run for its money in the right conditions

of course filming with a DSLR the camera is about 30% of the (technical) effort in creating decent vision and audio

and decent vision and audio are 30% of the effort of creating something worth watching

S

Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad