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Author Topic: PhotoKit Sharpener 2  (Read 25733 times)
Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2011, 10:44:00 PM »
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It's always a pleasure to see how well a small company like PG, with a small workforce, can respond so quickly when there are glitches. Unlike some much bigger companies ...

Yes, Bruce would be proud of you guys.

Eric
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-Eric Myrvaagnes

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Schewe
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2011, 11:28:29 PM »
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Yes, Bruce would be proud of you guys.

Thanks for the kind words...and yes, I believe he would be (and is)...
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schrodingerscat
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2011, 11:29:57 PM »
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I used PKS 1 for years, but started sharpening manually with both PS 4 and now Lightroom 3. Is there a benefit to PKS 2 over manual sharpening in LR?

Thanks
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Schewe
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« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2011, 12:01:25 AM »
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I used PKS 1 for years, but started sharpening manually with both PS 4 and now Lightroom 3. Is there a benefit to PKS 2 over manual sharpening in LR?

I'll let others give their perspective but for me, yes, there is.

You can do capture sharpening in either Camera Raw/Lightroom OR PKS 2 but not both. You can do output sharpening either in LR or PKS 2 but not both...but the creative sharpening that PKS 2 has can't be easily duplicated anywhere (my biased opinion).

The PKS 2 manual outlines how to incorporate ACR/LR, Photoshop and PKS 2 for various workflows...the best answer I can give you is download the 7 day demo (and deal with the nag reminder, sorry) and see for yourself. We took great pains with the PKS 2 manual to show how best to incorporate PKS 2 in a variety of sharpening workflows. Hope it helps...
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Dave Gurtcheff
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« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2011, 11:30:21 AM »
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I'll let others give their perspective but for me, yes, there is.

You can do capture sharpening in either Camera Raw/Lightroom OR PKS 2 but not both. You can do output sharpening either in LR or PKS 2 but not both...but the creative sharpening that PKS 2 has can't be easily duplicated anywhere (my biased opinion).

The PKS 2 manual outlines how to incorporate ACR/LR, Photoshop and PKS 2 for various workflows...the best answer I can give you is download the 7 day demo (and deal with the nag reminder, sorry) and see for yourself. We took great pains with the PKS 2 manual to show how best to incorporate PKS 2 in a variety of sharpening workflows. Hope it helps...

Does this mean when I convert my RAW files in CS5, I should go to the drop down, and turn all default sharpening off, and then use PK Sharpener 2?
BTW, I have used version 1 a long, long time, and upgraded to 2 last night.
Thanks
Dave
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Schewe
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2011, 01:33:45 PM »
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Does this mean when I convert my RAW files in CS5, I should go to the drop down, and turn all default sharpening off, and then use PK Sharpener 2?

If you want to use ACR's Detail panel sharpening, you can. But if you do, don't also do capture sharpening in PKS 2. It's an either or situation. I tend to use ACR's capture sharpening except for images to be merged to pano (those usually need post merge sharpening) and images that need a lot of hand work cleaning up in Photoshop. I do however prefer to use ACR's noise reduction even if I don't do capture sharpening in ACR. ACR's noise reduction can really help PKS 2's capture sharpening. The ACR noise reduction is that good.

Read the manual...we have a pretty good section on integrating ACR/Lightroom, Photoshop and PKS 2.
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hcubell
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2011, 01:52:51 PM »
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If you want to use ACR's Detail panel sharpening, you can. But if you do, don't also do capture sharpening in PKS 2. It's an either or situation. I tend to use ACR's capture sharpening except for images to be merged to pano (those usually need post merge sharpening) and images that need a lot of hand work cleaning up in Photoshop. I do however prefer to use ACR's noise reduction even if I don't do capture sharpening in ACR. ACR's noise reduction can really help PKS 2's capture sharpening. The ACR noise reduction is that good.

Read the manual...we have a pretty good section on integrating ACR/Lightroom, Photoshop and PKS 2.

Do you use ACR for capture sharpening even with your P65 files?
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Jeff Kott
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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2011, 02:27:28 PM »
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I downloaded my Photokit Sharpener 2 yesterday and really like the new interface. Interestingly, it makes some functions more automatic (like capture sharpening) and also gives more control over the entire process if you want it. This is a worthy upgrade just for the interface and added control. I also think the new manual is super and the upgrade price is very reasonable.

Jeff and Andrew, I'm curious as to whether there are any "under the hood" improvements with the basic functionality. For example, if I do a basic capture sharpening (say high res medium edge setting) and an appropriate output sharpening, will the results be any different than with PK Version 1?
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Ori
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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2011, 03:37:01 PM »
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"The PKS 2 manual"

Where can I DL it from? I couldn't find it on the site.
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Paul Sumi
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« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2011, 03:49:12 PM »
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"The PKS 2 manual"

Where can I DL it from? I couldn't find it on the site.

Using Windows, it's in the PKS 2 setup executable.  When you install PKS 2 it puts a copy of the manual on the desktop.

Paul

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Photo Op
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« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2011, 04:01:33 PM »
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Jeff- I'm not certain how to ask this question, but what the heel-

How does PKS2 relate to the sharpening in LR3? Or, since PKS2 has come out after LR3, are its routines that much more "advanced" than LR3? I have PKS1 (and CS4), but I'm using LR3 for almost everything, except Soft Proofing (and that could be a whole other question Smiley.......)

Thanks- Dave
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David
Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2011, 04:25:52 PM »
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Jeff- I'm not certain how to ask this question, but what the heel-

How does PKS2 relate to the sharpening in LR3? Or, since PKS2 has come out after LR3, are its routines that much more "advanced" than LR3? I have PKS1 (and CS4), but I'm using LR3 for almost everything, except Soft Proofing (and that could be a whole other question Smiley.......)

Thanks- Dave
This covered pretty well in the manual (which you can get by downloading the free trial version). My impression after one quick read of it is that it is more a matter of which workflow suits you best. The manual covers all the reasonable combinations of ACR, LR, and PS in good detail and very clearly.

The manual is a model of clarity IMHO.

Eric
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Schewe
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« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2011, 05:28:00 PM »
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How does PKS2 relate to the sharpening in LR3? Or, since PKS2 has come out after LR3, are its routines that much more "advanced" than LR3?

Actually, I can't answer that completely for NDA reasons (with Adobe) and for competitive reasons for PixelGenius...

Since I am involved in the development of both PhotoKit Sharpener 2 with PixelGenius and with Adobe for the development of ACR/LR I have to walk a very fine line.

I can tell you that we (PG) worked with Adobe to incorporate PKS Output Sharpening concepts inside Lightroom 2.x (I don't remember what version). I also fulfilled Bruce Fraser's consulting contract to improve the capture sharpening in ACR 4.1 and LR 1.1 (I think that was the LR version it first showed up in).

I've also continued to work closely with Eric Chan (the mad man!) to keep improving the output sharpening as well as the capture sharpening and noise reduction of ACR/LR.

And I worked with Mac Holbert who is the product manager and chief action writer for PKS 2.

I can't get into how each thing does its thing if you know what I mean...I will say I don't think it matters whether you do output sharpening in PKS 2 or ACR/LR. To me it's really a workflow issue not a technical issue. As far as I'm concerned, using either still means PixelGenius has touched your pixels :~)

Whether to use ACR/LR or PKS 2 for capture sharpening is again more of a workflow issue. PKS 2 is now pretty automated. ACR/LR needs careful adjustment. But it's an either or proposition...you should only use one OR the other.

The one thing I will point out is PKS 2's Creative Sharpeners kick ACR/LR butt...(but that's just a personal opinion that's prolly a bit biased).
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Photo Op
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« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2011, 06:13:53 PM »
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Actually, I can't answer that completely for NDA reasons (with Adobe) and for competitive reasons for PixelGenius...


OK, I expected that, but thanks for the answer you did give. Let me ask another, then. Based on Eric's comment (above), it seems the manual might shed light on many of my questions. But, it seems that the manual comes as part of the upgrade. Has there been any thought of having it appear as a separate download on the site?.

Oops, reread Eric's post, saw that the manual is part of the free download trial (thanks)
Dave
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David
Dave Gurtcheff
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« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2011, 09:15:03 PM »
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"Whether to use ACR/LR or PKS 2 for capture sharpening is again more of a workflow issue. PKS 2 is now pretty automated. ACR/LR needs careful adjustment. But it's an either or proposition...you should only use one OR the other."

EXACTLY why I purchased PK 1 and then 2. I am an "amateur", and need help here with automation. If I had the time, energy, and expertise (I'm 74 yrs old) to experiment with the infinite combinations of "Amount", "Radius", "Detail" and "Masking", I would do so. Your's is a life saver...as I scan 35mm BW, and color negs, medium format BW & color negs, and high end digital files, and make 20"x30" and 24"x32" prints (and sell them!), I  depend on you. Thank you.
Dave
www.modernpictorials.com
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Schewe
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« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2011, 09:50:59 PM »
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I  depend on you. Thank you.

Dave, thanks for the kind words...that's why we do what we do. So we're glad to help!
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schrodingerscat
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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2011, 10:03:19 PM »
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Thanks Jeff -

Nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth, much appreciated.

Looks like the upgrade to 2 is worthwhile. As my eyes deteriorate, will probably have to start relying on automation more.

Cheers
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Schewe
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2011, 10:13:31 PM »
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As my eyes deteriorate, will probably have to start relying on automation more.

Actually, one of the more difficult aspects of digital imaging is consistency...once you get the look you want, it's sometimes a challenge to keep achieving that look consistency day in and day out.

Which truth be told, is one of the reasons we came up with the "PhotoKit" concept of doing things...once you work out the results you want, automating the results help eliminates variables.

Yes, there are times you want to "push the envelope" on some things. The key is to get images to a high level easily and consistently then take it the final few steps to the finesse final result.
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Morris Taub
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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2011, 01:31:45 PM »
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Installed pks 2 today and it all went smoothly...but, when i opened photoshop CS5 i had both the old version and new version under automate, i thought the old version would be gone...i activated the new version, which i'm only just now checking out but man, cool...i then manually deleted version 1.2.9 from the photoshop plug-ins folder...anyone else had to do this?...I think i did deactivate the old version correctly before installing new version but am not totally sure...
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kikashi
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« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2011, 02:09:28 PM »
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Dave, thanks for the kind words...that's why we do what we do. So we're glad to help!
Jeff, you sound almost human  Wink

I have paid for my update to PK2 and look forward to gawping at its effect on my photos.

Jeremy
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