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Author Topic: Two Demo Videos of Red Scarlet from CES 2011  (Read 7498 times)
Peter McLennan
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« on: January 10, 2011, 10:26:37 PM »
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http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/07/working-red-scarlet-appears-at-our-trailer-we-go-hands-on-vid/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/video/2011/jan/08/ces-2011-red-scarlet-camera



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langier
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 10:47:52 PM »
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Cool!

Thanks!
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Larry Angier
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fredjeang
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 05:54:51 PM »
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he he...price is really interesting for the capability.

mmm...they gona sell them like hotdogs

Does someone knows the stills resolution?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 05:56:37 PM by fredjeang » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 02:00:59 AM »
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he he...price is really interesting for the capability.

mmm...they gona sell them like hotdogs

Does someone knows the stills resolution?



If they come out with it in a timely manner they will sell them. 

The only concern I see is if it has a 2/3's chip.  That's a rather small chip which allows throwing focus a difficult task and unless they have some new sensor tech. noise can become an issue.

On the RED One I see a fair amount of noise, depending on the light source at 2,000 iso, though once it is moving it is much less obvious.  For stills it could be an issue.

The pluses are if they really have tracking autofocus and for 3d work.  I'm loathe to think about 3d but I guess the tech geeks are gonna make it happen no matter what, so rather than try to push around two epics or red ones two of these makes more sense, if 3d makes sense.

Either way it's not a replacement for the RED ONE or the EPIC, but might make a nice addition.

IMO

BC
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Tim Jones
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 10:54:18 AM »
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  6k?   I want one now!
Tim
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ChristopherBarrett
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 11:26:01 AM »
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On the RED One I see a fair amount of noise, depending on the light source at 2,000 iso, though once it is moving it is much less obvious.  For stills it could be an issue.


BC

Ugh.  I've almost nailed down my decision on a set of Primes and yeah, even 1600 is a hair noisier than I'd like (mostly in the blue channel) which means I prolly need around T2.0 for night work.  And of course the Cooke Panchros I want are T2.9's.  Smart to stick with your still glass and see if anything else shakes out of the PL market at NAB.
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 10:15:53 PM »
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  Smart to stick with your still glass and see if anything else shakes out of the PL market at NAB.

Right on.  See ya there.  Roll Eyes
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bcooter
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 07:23:01 AM »
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Ugh.  I've almost nailed down my decision on a set of Primes and yeah, even 1600 is a hair noisier than I'd like (mostly in the blue channel) which means I prolly need around T2.0 for night work.  And of course the Cooke Panchros I want are T2.9's.  Smart to stick with your still glass and see if anything else shakes out of the PL market at NAB.



We've been working at f 2.8 for night and 2,000 is pretty much the limit.

You can go higher though the blue channel comes up pretty much noisy in the blacks and is noticeable if you push the image at all.

We've also been using Nikon still lenses, from primes to zooms.  Follow focus is pretty easy on the 17 to 35mm and that has been our workhorse lens.

We tested about everything and though some lenses are more advantageous than others in the real world hitting focus, being smooth and having enough light more than compensates for 5% sharpness of a lens.

The Red file is good, though very sensitive to wb and tint.  It's gonna take a lot of learning to grade these files though the color isn't exactly cooked in like a dslr file so it's more moveable.

Our savior has been the battery powered led lights.  Those things are simply amazing and work almost everywhere.

Not to go off topic, but when you move from a still photography mindset to a dialog driven piece the workload goes up at least 5 times. 

The hours we've been pulling are monstrous.     

There is a reason that every time you see a photo of a director they have huge bags under their eyes.

Film making is not for the weak of  heart.

IMO

BC
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 09:34:30 AM »
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Not to go off topic, but when you move from a still photography mindset to a dialog driven piece the workload goes up at least 5 times.

x 50 - Add a decimal place - at least for me  Smiley
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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 10:08:34 AM »
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But fascinating.
A quick info out of topic.

Now they decided in the studio to go Avid, I immediatly took a copy of Media Composer 5 and installed it in my 2 years old underpowered computer. Sometimes assisting has it's goodies.

So, I now run in the same machine the Premiere 3 4 and 5 (that is my original editor), the Edius 6 and the Media Composer 5. I couldn't help doing a sort of comparative. There is an interesting test that I did, wich was taking the heaviest peice of 15 sec footage I had and try to do serious editing with, pushing over the limits of my computer and the 3 softwares behavie completly differently. Guess what? Avid is the only one I could maintain that without noticing any slowdown, nada, rien de rien!!
The way Avid deals with cpu is much wiser. When you open it, it automatically cut all computer peripherical memory consuming so it serves the workflow and it implements much better the bin footage. Everything is super fluid, and I'm talking about a machine (my pc) that is just not suitable any more for more than 2k video.
I'm not an engineer, I do not know what makes Avid so workable on a limited machine and why the other softwares are more consuming, I found the MC really really stable anyway.

Media Composer 5 is a bloody peice of software, I didn't know it very much but I must admit that it is IMO a little above the crowd. I also noticed that it is very keyboard dependant. Couldn't use properly my Shuttle Pro 2 with it.

If you have not made yet a choice, keep an eye on it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 10:16:08 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Peter McLennan
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 11:59:22 AM »
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Keep in mind that Avid pretty well invented non-linear editing, way back in the early 90s.
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bcooter
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 06:05:48 PM »
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Keep in mind that Avid pretty well invented non-linear editing, way back in the early 90s.

Keep in mind that prior to FCP Avid was 10x the costs with 1/2 the functionality.

It wasn't long ago that a lot of Avid systems set in the corner while full time editors cut on FCP.

Now, I'm not pushing any Apple product and Final Cut really needs to step up, especially in rendering speeds and overall functionality (then again Avid and every non linear editor could use some work, but without FCP on the scene Avid would probably look whole lot different.

Now that we're working in files from 2k to 5k, it's important that some software step up and take over some of the load. 

Raise your hands for the functionality of color correction in Lightroom to be applied to digital video. 

But regardless of the above, if your going to be a full time editor, yes Avid is probably the standard to learn, but with Avid's keyboard workflow classes would also be a given.

If your just going to knock out a few videos, then Premier or even FCP (cobwebs and all) will work just fine.

IMO

BC

P.S.   Raise your hand for more than one company to get together and set some real standards for file formats, editing on and off line, grading and delivery.

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fredjeang
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 04:08:13 AM »
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Well, the overall mess is such that I doubt unfortunatly that we will see a shade of standardization in the video sphere between the brands. It's a wish that we all claim for a long time now and I'm afraid that the companies are just doing exactly the same that in MF. They just don't bloody care about what users want.

About color correction, I agree, it is really not user-friendly and IMO poorly implemented. The only system that I found really good so far is the Autodesk. But then it's ading another third-party. In fact, it seems that the really strong combination so far is indeed the naughty Final Cut + Smoke and Flame. They did a perfect integration with Apple and that is where color correction really works the way it should be.
But...it's also expensive (not for cine-video structures). In my case, I use the more simple but very good Combustion and indeed it's a pleasure. But as I said it does not have the full integration Smoke has with FCP so it is not really good in terms of workflow and I pretty much abandoned this configuration. Too much export-import.

An example of how Autodesk works with FCP explains well the issues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDjyGGCNaUA&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP243CA12759A9AC30

color correct: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAwO6znerkc (it would work the same without the euphonix)

If you can, and work with fcp, go for it.

ps: it's really ironic that the solution presented by Smoke is regarded as a "finaly they did it!", because that is completly logical. Instead, videographers had to swich between one and another platform for decades.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 04:45:32 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Peter McLennan
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 10:28:55 AM »
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Keep in mind that prior to FCP Avid was 10x the costs with 1/2 the functionality...

Absolutely true.  I recall a single seat at an Avid workstation would cost well above a hundred grand.  Closer to two in today's dollars. 

Today, so help me, people edit video on their phone.  Shocked
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bcooter
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2011, 06:29:03 PM »
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Absolutely true.  I recall a single seat at an Avid workstation would cost well above a hundred grand.  Closer to two in today's dollars. 

Today, so help me, people edit video on their phone.  Shocked

All FCP needs is a render board to speed the process.

All Color needs is more logical controls, but I kind of wonder if Apple is going to put any more energy into pro applications.

I mean how many people use Aperture and what was the last major change in FCP Studio?

It wasn't too long ago that rumor had it that Apple was going to make their own version of photoshop and FCP was going to move up another notch to the $10,000 level, but that information disappeared quickly.

Given all of this FCP is a very intuitive piece of software and doesn't take a lifetime to learn.  (Though it can take a lifetime to render with filters, transitions, layered clips).

I would like to see more effort put into color correction footage that is more intuitive, because after all Lightroom is not that far of a leap from the Di Vinci.

I guess we'll see how it all shakes out and I'm not 100% sure that it would be a good thing if consumer based  Ipad/pod/phones become editorial suites.

I just would like to see Apple continue to dance with the people that brought them to the party.

IMO

BC



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