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Author Topic: pc or mac  (Read 14320 times)
rainer_v
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« on: January 12, 2011, 08:54:26 AM »
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which are the best pc workstations at the moment and how they work compared to the 12 core macs.
same questions about laptops. i am thinking about to switch back from mac to pc, beeing angry about the more and more enclosing  politics of apple, so first time i consider to change to pc. ( even with iphone/ipad. )
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rainer viertlböck
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PeterAit
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2011, 09:34:21 AM »
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Oooh, you are in for it! The Mac fans will be on your case for apostasy! Switching from Mac to PC is, in some people's eyes, like a Muslim in Saudi Arabia converting to Judaism.

Seriously, I have had a terrific experience with a Dell workstation with Win 7. It's 8 core, 2.9 GHz, and I don't know of any software that uses 8 cores let alone 12. I have it configured with a RAID 0 boot disk and 12 gigs of memory (at the time, going above 12 was hugely expensive, things may be different now). I added an external SATA II RAID 0 from Mac Gurus for storage. It has run for over a year without a single glitch or crash, running LR, PS, etc. It's quite fast although hardly the fastest - but trying to get the fastest is a loser's proposition because you'll pay a big premium for a modest speed advantage.
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Peter
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Gemmtech
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2011, 10:47:47 AM »
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I have been building custom PCs since 1998, I was even shipping them all over the world at one point, then in 2006 after many years wondering what was so great about a MAC I decided to buy one, an IMac 24", then I bought another and one more all within 12 months.  I also owned an IPod and just for the record, I own 2 IPods, 2-IPhones and 1-15" MBP.  The IMacs are great looking, but each has had at least one hard drive die, 2 suffered from burn in (which can be partially remedied) 2 IPods have died and naturally the glass on one IPhone 4 shattered from 20".   The MBP 15" is a great laptop as long as I use the MAC OS with it.  I always dual booted my machines because I need Windows, since my CAD programs aren't ported to the MAC OS.  Then in December 2009 I went on vacation with a brand new MBP without Windows installed, I forced myself to learn the MAC OS and I can honestly say the PC is just easier to use and to do certain tasks, like maximizing a window or scrolling through images in a folder, etc.......  And a PC is faster, less expensive and easier to deal with.  My IMac was the first computer I ever took in for service, after it was repaired the first time (Another scam/fiasco) I started repairing them myself, not for the faint of heart.  Macs are overpriced and people who buy them do so based on an emotional need.  I will probably NEVER buy another MAC because there's no need to.  Seriously, I can't take an extra battery with my MBP, if my battery dies I have to wait until I can plug it in!  That's just poor design.  I can't replace a battery in my Iphone, Ipod, etc. WHY?  ARROGANCE

I think I'm rambling................................ so let's answer your question  Grin

You'll get a better machine, better components, better performance and a better OS for a lot less money with a PC than you will get with a MAC.  That is just a plain and simple fact, if somebody wants to argue whether or not the Windows OS isn't as good as a MAC, well, let's call them equal, but I do know this, my Windows machine can do EVERYTHING my MACs can do, the reverse isn't true without dual booting, parallels, VMWare, etc. and then not everything works correctly.  I still prefer and do build my own machines and they have lasted the longest without repairs and they are the easiest to upgrade.  Macs are niche products for a reason and the Iphone will probably follow the same path.  Apple's (Steve Jobs) arrogance almost bankrupt Apple once before and had it not been for many including Microsoft bailing them out, they wouldn't be here today!  Will it happen again?  Only time can tell, but they seem to be making many of the same mistakes.  
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 10:52:03 AM by Gemmtech » Logged
Chairman Bill
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 10:58:27 AM »
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... Macs are overpriced and people who buy them do so based on an emotional need. 
Really? And what emotional need was it that caused me to swich from a PC to a Linux box and then to a Mac? Maybe it was the need to be free of the emotion called 'computer rage' that led me to seek something other that crappy Dell PC I had, but that doesn't inevitably lead to a Mac, so you must mean some other emotional need. As a psychologist I'm really intrigued by your insight into the affective requirements of this group of computer users. Do share. Unless you're talking bollocks of course.
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jeremypayne
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 11:30:59 AM »
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Windows OS has come a LONG way and you've always had your pick of hardware in Windows land.

OS X is nice, and Apple finally sell nice hardware.

IMO, today, you can't go wrong either way ... although you do probably get a bit of a better bang for your buck in PC land ... especially if you are willing to assemble your own hardware - which isn't as hard as it may sound.  I'm currently designing a new Windows box ... the custom builder wants about $2,200 for it ... I can but the parts for about $1,000.
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Pete_G
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 12:05:52 PM »
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Check out the latest HP Z800 or the lesser Z400, they're pretty good.

...Oh yes, and the Z series workstations are not particularly cheap, and they come WITHOUT a graphics card, so you need
to factor in the price of (prolly) one of the nice new nVidia cards.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 12:17:17 PM by Pete_G » Logged

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Gemmtech
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 12:30:52 PM »
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"Really? And what emotional need was it that caused me to swich from a PC to a Linux box and then to a Mac? Maybe it was the need to be free of the emotion called 'computer rage' that led me to seek something other that crappy Dell PC I had, but that doesn't inevitably lead to a Mac, so you must mean some other emotional need. As a psychologist I'm really intrigued by your insight into the affective requirements of this group of computer users. Do share. Unless you're talking bollocks of course."

Your first problem is you switched to a Linux box, why?  I have been using Linux for many years, or should I say "playing" with Linux, because once again the machine needs to be able to do what we want and or need to do.  Linux is a great OS for certain tasks, but it's not as user friendly as Windows or Mac.  Your 2nd problem is you bought a Dell, which are not good machines, so I could expect a poor user experience from a Dell and have repaired many of them myself.  It could lead to a MAC if one didn't understand that it wasn't the OS but rather the hardware or a combination of the hardware and software not playing well together.  If you are a psychologist then you should be aware that people DO make emotional purchases, there's no rational reason to buy a MAC or it can be a case of "Ignorance is Bliss" but once you know what a MAC is and have used one, why on earth would you ever buy another?  As I have stated so many times before, a PC built with good quality components will out perform, out last, do more and cost less than a MAC, therefore MACs are a waste of money.  I bought my MACs based upon reading the rhetoric of Mac addicts and was just curious, after using them for a short period of time I realized there's no rational reason to buy a MAC.  Apple wouldn't even be here today if they weren't bailed out because even then most people realized they were a waste of money and they simply couldn't do what most people wanted or needed to do.  Apple products look nice and I do like my IPhone and IPod even though I can't change the batteries.  I still sold all my Apple stock because I see what's coming down the pike.  And let's please remember, Apple is now a marketing company, maybe even partially an enigneering company, but they don't manufacture anything.


BTW, I'm not insulting those who buy MACs, we ALL make emotional purchases, myself included.  Whether it be a Ferrari or certain Mercedes, a Patek Philippe, diamond / gem / gold jewelry, a Goldmund Reference II turntable, etc. they are all emotional purchases.  I can always tell if a person purchased an item based upon an emotional need or a rational analytical thought process.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 12:51:38 PM by Gemmtech » Logged
Pascalf
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 12:51:15 PM »
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same questions about laptops. i am thinking about to switch back from mac to pc, . . .

Having assembled video editing stations and graphics workstations since the late nineties, I almost exclusively use Apple as the core of the workstation.  Make of that what you will, though I tend towards being atheist towards the clients' use of operating system [and accompanying choices].

If you are moving from OSX based machines [which these days only means Apple], I would suggest:
- stay away from Dell, particularly for portables/ laptops.  In my experience, over the years, the failure rate of Dells has only been saved from being the worst [by far] by Compaq [now deceased].  Unless you plan on only doing light, fluffy computing for about 18 months: no Dell.
- do consider the higher end Toshiba and the higher end Sony Vaio: well built, wise decisions about ports and supported standards, superb compatibility, very nice displays [with quite decent colour, though avoid the gloss if you can], and very good reliability.  Ages very well, these machines are known to give MacBooks a run for their money, and generally cost slightly less, people tend to keep them around like Apple users keep their older portables: they pass them on to their children/ spouse for a few more years of decent use.  And the video card compatibility means great ease in using a good external monitor, compared to lesser brands.

Workstation-wise for Windows based machines, I have no great guidelines, seeing that I have always based my workstations on OS X based hardware.  There are component level items I will put forth:
- Buy [really] good RAM.  It's a bitch to ferret out RAM issues, because the symptoms look like many other hardware failures/ issues.  I've historically bought Crucial [formerly Micron] RAM in high throughput workstations, and Nippon made RAM [Toshiba at one time] also rates as very reliable [compared to generic].  Kingston is always a good bet when you can't confirm the RAM fab, though Transcend does not fare well: I've had two recent workstations show RAM issues which were resolved moving to Crucial [from Transcend]
- Drives: don't go 'green' for high throughput installations or arrays.  Apart from the spin-up/ spin-down access time issues, scratch dirves should be 'built to last' through 24/7 work cycles, which 'green' drive are not.  'Green' drives are great for drive sleds/ trays, where the near-line use is the ideal duty cycle: sporatic access/ use, big capacity, affordable, quiet and energy efficient.
- historically, I really like Seagate.  Do note that ALL drives will fail.  How and when is the question to weigh.

Anyways, YMMV.  A [brief] summary of my wisdom through experience, the above has worked well for me and my clients' installations over the past decades.


Regards,
Pascal


Post Scriptum:
Macs are overpriced and people who buy them do so based on an emotional need.
- My Commodore64 would argue otherwise

You'll get a better machine, better components, better performance and a better OS for a lot less money with a PC than you will get with a MAC.  That is just a plain and simple fact, . . . 
- quaint subjective quality assesment.  Simple facts for complex answers.  Both OS have their pro/con balance.  I've taken apart SGI, Ogivar, Commodore, Atari, and others.  I can have that discussion.

Macs are niche products for a reason and the Iphone will probably follow the same path.  Apple's (Steve Jobs) arrogance almost bankrupt Apple once before and had it not been for many including Microsoft bailing them out, they wouldn't be here today!  Will it happen again?  Only time can tell, but they seem to be making many of the same mistakes. 
- Personalities?  Please tell me about Steve Ballmer, William 'Bill' Gates vs. Gary Kildall [of CP/M fame]
- QD-DOS

P.P.S: I am THAT old.
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Gemmtech
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2011, 01:12:49 PM »
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"Having assembled video editing stations and graphics workstations since the late nineties, I almost exclusively use Apple as the core of the workstation.  Make of that what you will, though I tend towards being atheist towards the clients' use of operating system [and accompanying choices]."

Explain?  Obviously Apple isn't in the workstation business, so what do you use to construct an Apple workstation?  Is that legal?  

There's still not a better notebook than a Lenovo, though I do like the Sony

If you want a workstation, I'd highly recommend just building it, it's truly easy today to assemble a PC, start with a nice case, one from any of the good companies, Coolermaster, Silverstone, Lian-Li etc. all make great cases, get a great PS, add a motherboard from Intel
(they are the most stable) naturally an Intel Dual Xeon CPU, ram from Crucial, Corsair or OCZ all great, though I have been using Crucial the longest and can't remember ever replacing a bad stick.  I use Seagate Cheetah 15K SCSI hard drives, still to this day, I do agree ALL hard drives will fail, but I can honestly say I have never had a SCSI hard drive fail.  If you want to experiment, then I'd recommend setting up a couple SSD in a RAID array, but I haven't switched everything over yet because SSDs haven't been proven to last and we do know that over time they get slower.  I have installed SSDs in my laptops and one desktop and so far it's been great.  Video cards are very task dependent, the Nvidia Quadro 5000 is very nice, but you might not need this, like I said, it's very task dependent.  Add a Plextor DVD burner and you are set.  And go to Apple's website spec out a similar machine and watch your eyes pop out!  Well, actually you can't spec a similar machine because Apple doesn't offer SCSI or high end video cards.  And look at the price of Apple hard drive and ram upgrades, RIDICULOUS

I'm not sure any of your other statements in your Ps make any sense or at least aren't germane to this discussion.  

"Personalities?  Please tell me about Steve Ballmer, William 'Bill' Gates vs. Gary Kildall [of CP/M fame]
- QD-DOS"

Relevance?  All three good thinkers with Bill Gates the better businessman than Gary Kildall and also luckier.  Should we now discuss John D. Rockefeller?  Roll Eyes

« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 01:30:29 PM by Gemmtech » Logged
Gemmtech
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2011, 01:38:30 PM »
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"I've taken apart SGI, Ogivar, Commodore, Atari, and others."

And this related to MAC vs. PC exactly how?

Quote from: Gemmtech on Today at 10:47:47 AM
You'll get a better machine, better components, better performance and a better OS for a lot less money with a PC than you will get with a MAC.  That is just a plain and simple fact, . . .

"Both OS have their pro/con balance."

I've always been curious about that, what is the Pro/Con balance between MAC/Windows?  As I stated above there's nothing I can't do on my Windows machine that I can do on my MAC, but the MAC can't handle, CAD, Softplan, ArchiCad, etc.  as well as many other programs.  Virus?  Both can get, but I must admit I don't keep my financial computer attached to the internet, so it's a non-issue.  Ignorance is Bliss and I only have a couple years using the MAC, so I'm curious what are the pros of the MAC OS?  Seems like lately lots of problems printing from a MAC to Epson printers.   
 
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Pascalf
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2011, 06:09:26 PM »
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"I've taken apart SGI, Ogivar, Commodore, Atari, and others."

And this related to MAC vs. PC exactly how?

It refers to having seen the choices many constructor have taken for the design of machines, and that engineering always includes choices and compromises, across many operating systems and manufacturers, for the available budget.  There are common choices across many computer manufacturers, and the operating system is not the only one.  Telling us you have been using Windows and OS X without doing anything mission critical is fine, but dismissing the experience of others usually means that you consider your experience of Windows and OS X the reference by which other should judge both of these operating systems.  I don't consider that valid.  My experience is mine, and I need to convince my clients that what I propose will be valid, backed by the actual performance my client sees of their own use, from whatever I assemble for them.
Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)




"Both OS have their pro/con balance."

I've always been curious about that, what is the Pro/Con balance between MAC/Windows?  As I stated above there's nothing I can't do on my Windows machine that I can do on my MAC, but the MAC can't handle, CAD, Softplan, ArchiCad, etc.  as well as many other programs.

In my experience, several built-in features and software-hardware features are advantages that are not available to most Windows machines.  There are also negatives as to other choices Apple has picked as viable strategies or design choices.

Listed, in no particular order: my list of Apple pro and cons design decisions/ implementations.  By no means an exhaustive list, and generally deals with Apple specific items.
Equivalent Windows based implementations, are:
- not widespread
or
- common
or
- consistent across Windows based implementations


Apple Pros:
- Target mode.  Available on [practically] all Apple machines [for many design generations], it simplifies maintenance, recovery, backup.
- External boot: the ability to easily make an external boot drive that will work for several machines.  This greatly simplifies the maintenance of an office/ studio with several machines, even if they are not identical.
- Drivers.  The [relatively] restricted range of hardware chosen for the Apple machines means that drivers are not required to get most computer running to a very stable state.  Obviously, this does not include third party items.
- Firewire: the nearly universal, higher speed drive connection has been very beneficial in a true plug and play drive connection, which includes [modest] power.  [Apple rarely uses the four pin variation.]
- DisplayPort: supports the complete range of video standards by being a 'transport', like Fibre Channel was for storage.
- component quality: components chosen by Apple tend to be overpriced [to some extent], but overall are quite reliable.
- Unibody: chassis rigidity to a whole new level, with very manageable weight.


Apple Cons:
- Unibody: this [portable] chassis design greatly hampers internal access.  Among the gripes: a battery replacement becomes a warranty voidable action.  What!  Same goes with RAM.
- Glossy displays: no serious graphic pro tolerates glossy displays, even if they can have favourable lighting conditions: it changes the gamma and gives screen calibrators fits [compared to matte screens].  Matte display are not factory options on many models.
- Glass as a facade [for iMac and mobiles].  I don't think I need to explain why this could be not so great, considering that they developed a  unibody chassis [for their portable line] for rigidity. I already know of three people with cracked/ shattered mobile displays.

There are more items for each, though I'll stop here for now.

As I've said, YMMV.  These are my opinions, and please do your own research.  You likely have other items in each column.

I'll conclude by answering some of the other comments from "Gemmtech":

"Having assembled video editing stations and graphics workstations since the late nineties, I almost exclusively use Apple as the core of the workstation.  Make of that what you will, though I tend towards being atheist towards the clients' use of operating system [and accompanying choices]."

Explain?  Obviously Apple isn't in the workstation business, so what do you use to construct an Apple workstation?  Is that legal? 
- i use Mac Pros.  Many video workstations have dedicated video cards for video compression/decompression, or Fibre Channel cards, or other hardware that is not standard issue from computer manufacturers.  Until recently, true broadcast quality in real time [on a computer] required a dedicated video card, akin to the [now old, at the time supercool] Targa 2000 Pro or Blackmagic Design HDLink [for SDI] in mission critical setups.  In this case, the mission is to edit a daily show like a news show or edit a graphics heavy 30 minute video.  The station fails, no show, no money [or a loss of a client].  Workstations usually cost about $20,000 turnkey

From wikipedia.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workstation
"Historically, workstations had offered higher performance than personal computers, especially with respect to CPU and graphics, memory capacity and multitasking capability."

- I don't know why you would think it is not legal.


I have been using Crucial the longest and can't remember ever replacing a bad stick.  I use Seagate Cheetah 15K SCSI hard drives, still to this day, I do agree ALL hard drives will fail, but I can honestly say I have never had a SCSI hard drive fail.
- Yes, we agree about Crucial and Seagate [SCSI].  I have had Seagate [SCSI] drives fail, but they let you know they're failing, usually by making strange, unusual noise [for a Seagate drive]. That has, to date, always given me time to get to the clients' machine and run one last full backup.

And go to Apple's website spec out a similar machine and watch your eyes pop out!  Well, actually you can't spec a similar machine because Apple doesn't offer SCSI or high end video cards.
- That's what assembling a workstation involves, among other things.  That's my job: build a reliable, rock solid, highly automated, fast [for a while] graphics station.


"Personalities?  Please tell me about Steve Ballmer, William 'Bill' Gates vs. Gary Kildall [of CP/M fame]
- QD-DOS"

Relevance?  All three good thinkers with Bill Gates the better businessman than Gary Kildall and also luckier.  Should we now discuss John D. Rockefeller?  Roll Eyes
- Quaint.  Microsoft 'copied' [many say 'stole'] CP/M to sell to IBM.  Find out what QD-DOS stands for.
- Relevance: Steve Jobs does what he does, the same way Michael Dell does what he does.  Demonizing Mr. Jobs does not make sense, either.

I'll re-iterate: choose what you want.  Be aware of the trade-offs made in the design and assembly of what you will buy, as it pertains to daily use, be it heavy or light.  Buy what you need, then buy want you want: pick a machine that does what it needs, and if budget allows get other stuff with it.


For now,
Regards,
Pascal
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MrSmith
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 03:18:18 PM »
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"- Unibody: this [portable] chassis design greatly hampers internal access.  Among the gripes: a battery replacement becomes a warranty voidable action.  What!  Same goes with RAM."

fitting ram does not invalidate the apple warranty.
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2011, 03:34:58 PM »
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To put it simply, when I was a PC user (until about a year ago), my computer froze up, crashed, or gave me the BSOD at least weekly (using multiple machines).  Since buying my iMac (with 27" display that makes editing photos an absolute delight), the only time I run into problems is when the power goes out.  It's absolutely stable.  I still use PCs at work, and it's shortcomings continue to frustrate me to no end.  If I had a nickel for every BSOD I had, I'd be using a Pentax 645D as my daily shooter!

I've lost countless, priceless (to me at least!) finished images because Microsoft cannot make an OS that doesn't crash.  Number of times my Macs have crashed on me or my wife: ZERO.
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Christopher
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2011, 05:15:01 PM »
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rainer,

There will always be a fight bteween mac and windows people, but I think both system can work quite well. I currently use a very high end PC System. Something like 12 cores, 48GB RAM, 2 SSDs, 4HD in RAID as Scratch and another 4 as image storage. I can tell you the thing is amazing. I use mainly LR, C1, PTGui and PS. The great thing is that I have no problem at all, processing some large panoramics, process raw files and still LR runs very smooth to browse images.

Windows 7 has come a long way and works really great, so far in 8 months I had NO crash whatsoever, everything works very well. I payed around 6500EURs at the time. I know for a fact that for a similiar MAC I would need to pay very close to or even more than 12.000 EUR

Now there is one important point, for me it is very easy, I grew up designing and building my own computers, so it is like walking for me and the price advantage comparde to apple is huge.

It is not as easy if you buy a DELL or any such computer. I am not even sure if there is a price advantage anymore. However, I understand that not everyone has the time to build his own computer, so my personal suggestion would be to find a good custom shop, with fast support in your area. There should be quite a few here in Munich.

I good installed windows System, does certainly NOT crash any more often than a mac. If you have more specific questions, feel free to contact me.

I have nothing against macs, I love my mac mini for music and ipad for everything else, I just don't see the need to spend so much money on a workstation.

EDIT:

I wanted to add something about notebooks. here it depends on what you want, there are some huge mobil workstations, which are huge and bulky and smaller fast laptops. If for example you would like a portable but fast notebook I would look at the Sony Z range. (Others Lenovo or HP)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 05:22:47 PM by Christopher » Logged

Chairman Bill
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2011, 05:20:54 PM »
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Your first problem is you switched to a Linux box, why?
'Cos I'd had enough of crappy Win95. So Linux was a logical move. When I came to replace the computer I got an iMac cheap (less than the comparable Dell machine), and ran that as a dual boot Mac OS9 & Linux box.

... Linux is a great OS for certain tasks, but it's not as user friendly as Windows or Mac.
Which is why, when Mac OSX came out, I switched to that, & have stuck with it. It was far, far superior to the alternatives.

... Your 2nd problem is you bought a Dell, which are not good machines, so I could expect a poor user experience from a Dell and have repaired many of them myself.  It could lead to a MAC if one didn't understand that it wasn't the OS but rather the hardware or a combination of the hardware and software not playing well together ...
Well, the Mac was clearly a more capable & better built machine, but it was Win95 that caused me the problems, not the Dell per se

... If you are a psychologist then you should be aware that people DO make emotional purchases ...
Yes, but your assertion was that this was THE reason people buy a Mac. I'm still waiting for some evidence

... there's no rational reason to buy a MAC ...
Really? Isn't this argument from incredulity? Just because you can't imagine a rational reason why you would do so, there is no rational reason? Faulty logic. My reasons were rational, and remain so. You're asserting that purchasing decisions concerning Macs are emotional ones, and so far, blind assertion is all we've got

...  or it can be a case of "Ignorance is Bliss" but once you know what a MAC is and have used one, why on earth would you ever buy another? ...
How about because it works for me? How about I use a Windows machine at work & find it less user-friendly than my Mac? How about I like the reliability of my Mac? How about the software investment? How about ... these aren't emotional reasons?


...  As I have stated so many times before, a PC built with good quality components will out perform, out last, do more and cost less than a MAC, therefore MACs are a waste of money.
Blind assertion. Repeating it doesn't make it so. Maybe you could back it up with some data? Until then, what can be asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence.

...  I'm not insulting those who buy MACs, we ALL make emotional purchases, myself included.  Whether it be a Ferrari or certain Mercedes, a Patek Philippe, diamond / gem / gold jewelry, a Goldmund Reference II turntable, etc. they are all emotional purchases.
Well your blathering comes across as pretty insulting. Mac users buy based on emotional need (groundless assertion), Mac users don't make rational purchasing decisions (another groundless assertion), and so on.

... I can always tell if a person purchased an item based upon an emotional need or a rational analytical thought process.
Wow! Clever you. And how do you manage this amazing parlour trick?
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2011, 05:25:57 PM »
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I remember (vaguely) the last time I had a BSOD.  It was a hardware fault, under Windows XP 32, so it was in 2007 and I remember it was summer, early in the year down here.  So that's about 4 years ago.

Last time I had an OS crash I simply don't remember, but I suspect it was XP before SP 1 - that's a long time ago.
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2011, 05:28:08 PM »
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OP - Your going to switch back to PC because you dont like Apples politics ?

That is ridiculous - I am amazed that would be even a remote consideration .......

What about wanting a machine that actually works and is stable ? I run several MACs the Oldest being 10 years old....all run flawlessly and always have. I also have Dell Laptops that are absolute junk after 1-2 years of service - never again !

If that is your stand what about Microsoft "politics" of releasing buggy Junk since windows 3.0 ...remember what a success Vista was  ?


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Christopher
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2011, 05:32:21 PM »
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Oh come one, I can't hear it any more. Windows 7 is rock solid and I could tell you that I run many PCs without any crashes for the last few years. Pretty much the same as Farmer said. Mac has no real benefits anymore. Don't tell me it's easier to use, because it's different but easier? I would say it depends only on the person you ask.

However, you are right about DELL, which would be my last choice. My old Sony Z, still runs fine after 3 years time. It's a little slow, but thats normal, because the hardware is just older compared to current stuff.
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Dennis Carbo
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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2011, 05:38:39 PM »
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I would challenge the statement that APPLE is more expensive, a previous poster stated he paid 6,500 for a High end PC system and that the Apple equivilent was 12,000.  Sry - no way they were the same spec .

If you were to spec out the internals EXACTLY same there would be very little price difference.  

So many people have a seething hatred for Mr. Job's and Apple they just wont listen to reason, and believe any anti-mac crap that comes along.  Try both ...I mean really try - then make a decision ...tat the only way to go

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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2011, 05:51:07 PM »
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Christoper,

"Mac has no real benefits anymore"   Well i would say that 99% of the Photo studios in NYC would disagree with you, I am sure some use PC but I have never seen even one.....EVER. Sinar Digital Backs didnt even support Windows until recently to my knowledge.

I am glad you have a great experience with Windows 7 - I have not tried it to be honest, gave up on PC's after Win 98/ME/2000/XP/VISTA all turned out to be awful. I just need it to work - Apple just works allday/everyday for me and has since my first try with all their OS versions. Perhaps they got it right with Windows 7 - LETS ALL JUST GO TAKE PICTURES ! 

anyhow - Nice website Christoper and greetings from the USA - Happy new year

Regards,

Dennis
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