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Author Topic: Face mount to plexi using two part silicone adhesive  (Read 3757 times)
Bill Koenig
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« on: January 21, 2011, 03:35:23 PM »
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Has anyone tried to do this on there own? If so, what type of two part silicone adhesive is used?
My guess is that you would need some kind of roller press, but could this be done with a hand held roller?
I have execs  to some optically clear two part silicone adhesive where I work, just not sure if its the right stuff for the job
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 04:29:07 PM »
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If your inquiring about the true Diasec process I cannot help.
My only experience is with Seal's Optimount. Optically clear 2 sided adhesive for face mounting.
Cold roll laminate applied and very difficult to get perfect
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tim wolcott
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 11:49:25 PM »
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This is very bad idea since if the plexi gets scratched you will not have an investment or a happy collector.  Plus if you are using lightjet or other non inkjet print you will have trapped the outgassing of chemicals in between the plexi and surface which will inherently speed up the fading of the print.  There a no win proposition here.  I know that Lik is doing this and will be sued for what he is doing.  If you sign it and number it, the doors are wide open for the liability of the art.  He will get sued for this.  AIPAD would not do this or would any conservation dept of any museum do this.  But hey if its for yourself go for it.  Use a liner or matt, frame it the way it is suppose too.  T
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 03:25:26 AM »
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This is very bad idea since if the plexi gets scratched you will not have an investment or a happy collector.  Plus if you are using lightjet or other non inkjet print you will have trapped the outgassing of chemicals in between the plexi and surface which will inherently speed up the fading of the print.  There a no win proposition here.  I know that Lik is doing this and will be sued for what he is doing.  If you sign it and number it, the doors are wide open for the liability of the art.  He will get sued for this.  AIPAD would not do this or would any conservation dept of any museum do this.  But hey if its for yourself go for it.  Use a liner or matt, frame it the way it is suppose too.  T

A properly processed traditional silver based print has no residual chemicals to speak of, and if done correctly has the correct ph to be neutral, and certainly has no outgassing. Most facemounting doesn't work very well with inkjet, using silicone processes will cause bleeding of the inks, and the surface isn't smooth enough for products like Seals optimount.

There seems to be a wide opinion as to what is acceptable and what is "archival".  Each photographer needs to decide there own standards, but meeting museum standards is rarely necessary for ones work, and normally limits greatly the display options you may choose to use.  Face mounting is certainly not new at all, and longevity of these images is far better than what many imply.  In fact, some face mounting might improve print longevity ... Fatali comes to mind as his process somehow face mounts the traditional photo based print to museum glass, which basically seals out all outside influences from gases as well as protects from UV. It's actually a very cool look when framed ... the image seems to just float in space.

Lik does not facemount most of his work. I was in his LaJolla gallery a couple of days ago, and there were only a few images using plexi that may have been presented that way just for display in the store ... they were suspended back to back and not on a wall.  I'm not sure he even sells prints this way.I've been told he does not use Plexiglass but uses thin Lexan (I suppose that may be a form of plexi, but certainly not what most photographers use when framing images).  Most of the time the Lexan is between the liner and the frame, meaning it is not near the surface of the print.     yes, this can scratch as well, but glass that size is a nightmare to work with and very few use it.    I doubt very much if he will be "sued" ... I have a friend with a Lik print on the wall and it's still terrific - I'm not sure how old it is but it's at least 10 to 15 years.  No clue if it is exactly the same as the day he hung it up, but it certainly doesn't appear to have any problem.  I personally have images printed from negatives that have been displayed for over 30 years, and while I think there is some slight degradation, the image's still look just fine.
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Gemmtech
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 03:42:22 AM »
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"I know that Lik is doing this and will be sued for what he is doing"

God, I hope not, aren't we litigious enough without photographers getting sued because their images only lasted 100 years?   Huh

I'm a dinosaur, I use the pour method to coat the image and that looks amazing, plus I can wet sand and buff it out.  A lot more work
and probably not as archival (I don't know what the word archival means regarding longevity and I've read the definition Wink )
I do have a couple that are 30 years old and still look new, they aren't "Museum Quality" whatever that means?  I've seen some real sh*t in museums.

I have done a couple lexan using silicone, but it's easier to take a scratch out of a coated finish and you can apply another coat if necessary.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 03:47:41 AM by Gemmtech » Logged
Ori
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 04:30:12 AM »
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If your inquiring about the true Diasec process I cannot help.
My only experience is with Seal's Optimount. Optically clear 2 sided adhesive for face mounting.
Cold roll laminate applied and very difficult to get perfect


Very difficult, but possible? I was thinking of trying that, with seal's optimount. might you have a picture of something you made? (although I'm not so sure it would be visible via picture)
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 05:23:09 AM »
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Ori,
The problem is dust. (Another thread here about that.) I purchased a DRS roller this week. It came in yesterday so have yet to try it out.
I am pretty sure this will take care of the fine dust between the laminate and print. (Tack cloths did not work.)
 You tube has 3 videos that I know of demonstrating the process. Drytak,Bumblejax and I believe HP. All very good.
The whole procedure is really quite simple. Getting a sellable finished product without dust specks is the issue.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 05:28:32 AM by Dan Berg » Logged

AWeil
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 06:52:01 PM »
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I have done experiments with face mounting inkjet prints (on semigloss and gloss) on acrylic using clear household silicon available in general hardware stores - or stores for aquarium supply (silicon not toxic for fish equals not bad for inkjet .-)).
It is difficult and messy but possible. High gloss paper surface is better because it has no tooth to it to catch air bubbles. Air bubbles are the biggest problem. Ideally, you have to use a suitable mechanic press to make it work. I did not have one, just hand hold rollers normally used for etching. Some pictures turned out really nice - some did trap the bubbles. Inkjet prints remained stable for about 8 month now - exposed to normal mixed light. I limited the experimenting to 10 x 10 cm size prints and precut clear acrylic glass - just to play. Don't worry too much about scratching the acryllic. It is delicate, it needs to be cleaned with Isopropanol prior to applying the silicon, but it can be polished if need be.
The two component silicon glue is still waiting for tests (Wacker Silgel 612 A and B). I found one German website discussing the use of two component silicon glue in the context of fusing glass - and the suggestion was to deviate from the 1 to 1 mixing suggestion to a 1 to 1.5 in order to achieve better flow of the silicon - again, to avoid air bubbles.

Good Luck

Angela
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