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Author Topic: Epson LF vs. Canon LF  (Read 17418 times)
abiggs
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« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2011, 07:51:13 PM »
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I haven't done a speed test in a real world sense, meaning best quality setting on both machines, but I certainly feel like the 9900 is every bit as fast as the iPF8300. It's the HP Z3200 that is the dog, but that isn't part of the current thread.
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Andy Biggs
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2011, 09:40:57 PM »
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Yes, at absolute maximum resolution for each printer, single pass printing, the Canon is a little slower.  I tested this extensively with an 11880 vs the 6100 and at maximum resolution....

It's been pointed out before that the carriage speed of the 6100 is slower than the carriage speed of the 44" and 60" Canons. That's mostly why the 6100 is slower than the 44" and 60" Canons. The larger printers on-board processing capacities are improved and having a hard drive on the printer speeds the spooling process (which in turn reduces network problems that can occur when sending huge files). You really need to compare a 60" machine to a 60" machine or a 44" machine to a 44" machine. Totally not fair to compare a 6100 to a 11880. The 11880 is faster than a 4880 as well...

I've found Epson's 9900 to be neck-to-neck with Canon's 44" printers speed-wise. It gets down the the point where you have to determine when you start the timer. Do you start the timer when you hit print or when the printer actually starts printing? The application rendering process takes quite a while when a conventional print method is used for either printer. The application renders a print file and sends it to the print spooler, then the spooler sends it to the printer and then the printer starts printing it. If you're printing a huge file from Photoshop, that first step can take quite a while - think about Photoshop's print progress dialog that stays up a while after you hit print. Canon's Photoshop printing plug-in's print-while-rendering-and-spooling feature allows it to start printing very quickly (often within 7 seconds from hitting Print) and continues to render and spool while it starts printing. When you're working with huge files from Photoshop this can provide a big speed improvement.

And if you need to reprint an image on a 44" or 60" Canon it's stored on the printer's hard drive so you can instantly start printing another one without having to resend the image from a computer. People that send massive files to 60" printers really like that and find it to be a huge time saver.

I have a few clients that are in the business of selling fine art reproductions on a large scale. They keep a nice database of images from lots of artists and often get orders in the 5-50 range for any particular image. When one of these clients found out that they could keep all of their images on iPF printer hard drives and fulfill orders without sending from a computer they flipped out. Storing print files on iPF hard drives has big workflow speed advantages for a small percentage of users. Most people with those printers don't even know about it (or the nesting capabilities or on-board calibration for that matter).

So there's more to this than just basic square foot per hour numbers. As Andy pointed out, when we look at the bigger picture, Epson and Canon are practically identical speed-wise, and HP is clearly way behind. I really love the 9900 and the 8300 and don't have a favorite between them.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2011, 05:19:48 AM »
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The x100 line and the 11880 is old old tech now.

Could be but still enough around of both. A friend's iPF9000 is much faster than his 11880 running at the highest resolution to solve banding issues on the 11880 which are not solved by Epson in The Netherlands. It may be nice that the Epson lays down smaller droplets but when they are not consistently layed down you gain nothing by that. It has been like that for more than a year now. His brand new iPF8300 does a good job in his opinion.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Spectral plots of +230 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2011, 05:31:23 AM »
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And if you need to reprint an image on a 44" or 60" Canon it's stored on the printer's hard drive so you can instantly start printing another one without having to resend the image from a computer. People that send massive files to 60" printers really like that and find it to be a huge time saver.

I have a few clients that are in the business of selling fine art reproductions on a large scale. They keep a nice database of images from lots of artists and often get orders in the 5-50 range for any particular image. When one of these clients found out that they could keep all of their images on iPF printer hard drives and fulfill orders without sending from a computer they flipped out. Storing print files on iPF hard drives has big workflow speed advantages for a small percentage of users. Most people with those printers don't even know about it (or the nesting capabilities or on-board calibration for that matter).


The HP's printer hard drives offer the same buffered printer data reprints. While you may see it as a unique feature there has always been something alike in the Windows printer spooler. I have used that on Epson 9000's ten years ago, just let the printer spooler keep the jobs and reprint them from there, no rasterising by the driver has to be done again then, the computer-printer connection could be a bottleneck but in time that became faster like printer speeds increased. Of course there is less information what spooler data represents a certain job. Qimage's interactive log could help then with the day/hour originally printed. Most RIPs will have that combination of the spooler and a logbook too like found in the HP and Canon printers with a harddisc.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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jpgentry
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« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2011, 10:42:13 PM »
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The difference is you can fire a print out of the canon without ever going to the computer.  I use this from my 9100 all the time.  Or at least I did until recently deciding to move to an Epson GS6000 (and Ebay the ipf9100 if you're looking):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-ImagePrograf-iPF9100-Printer-Large-Format-/230600737305?pt=COMP_Printers&hash=item35b0e00219#ht_500wt_922


Speaking of the Epson GS (and since the thread is Canon/Epson LF) I don't see much talk about it here, but it sure will open up diverse possibilities with everything other than photo prints...  Looking forward to uncoated wall murals and possibly canvas though I hear it still may be wise to spray.

-Jonathan

The HP's printer hard drives offer the same buffered printer data reprints. While you may see it as a unique feature there has always been something alike in the Windows printer spooler. I have used that on Epson 9000's ten years ago, just let the printer spooler keep the jobs and reprint them from there, no rasterising by the driver has to be done again then, the computer-printer connection could be a bottleneck but in time that became faster like printer speeds increased. Of course there is less information what spooler data represents a certain job. Qimage's interactive log could help then with the day/hour originally printed. Most RIPs will have that combination of the spooler and a logbook too like found in the HP and Canon printers with a harddisc.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla



Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 12:22:37 AM by jpgentry » Logged
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2011, 02:19:42 AM »
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There is an interactive log on the Z3200-PS too, restart the job on the printer panel using the print data stored on the printer's harddisc. I have not tested what the difference in loading/print speed is between using the printer panel, the Z3200 log from printer utility on the computer or the Windows spooler. I doubt there is a difference between the first two. There could be some difference using the Windows spooler but nowhere near the time a rasterisation step takes. The time to get the inkjet head initialised must be enough to get data transferred for the first strokes.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm





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MHMG
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« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2011, 08:23:51 AM »
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Storing print files on iPF hard drives has big workflow speed advantages for a small percentage of users. Most people with those printers don't even know about it (or the nesting capabilities or on-board calibration for that matter).

Re: nesting capabilities, are you talking about Canon's Free layout app or something else? I just ordered an ipf8300. Canon is definitely pursuing the gillette razor blade model..I bought if for little more than the value of the inks I currently have to replace in my 8100.  I'm always looking for better ways to deal with file transfer and media management with these WF machines.

thanks in advance for your reply.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2011, 08:37:19 AM »
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Re: nesting capabilities, are you talking about Canon's Free layout app or something else? I just ordered an ipf8300.

The Free Layout App - it often goes overlooked! I'd bet 90%+ of iPF users have never used it, or even heard of it. Cheers.
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MHMG
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« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2011, 09:06:00 AM »
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The Free Layout App - it often goes overlooked! I'd bet 90%+ of iPF users have never used it, or even heard of it. Cheers.

Yes, In conjunction with InDesign, Canon's Free Layout App may not be a powerhouse RIP, but it sure ups the game for photgrapher's needing to send more than one image file at at time to a big inkjet printer.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2011, 09:10:19 AM »
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Even with InDesign, the ability to layout several pages to save paper is pretty cool. Of course, more and more photographers are using Lightroom for multi image printing and positioning.
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2011, 10:27:43 AM »
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I have to wonder if Free Layout is a dead product though, because Canon still hasn't bothered releasing a Win x64 version.
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2011, 04:25:48 PM »
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I have run Free Layout in 64 bit on my Mac, for what that's worth.

At times it's worked very well. Other times I've had  CM issues and a ruined print. Any hints on how to set things so my profile is correctly applied?

Terry.
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Farmer
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« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2011, 04:53:24 PM »
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It's not a free option, but for Epson LF printers this is an excellent option for those who want more control over printing or want to make custom profiles with a Spectroproofer (among other things):

http://www.dinax.de/mirage/

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Nick4u1
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« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2011, 05:28:20 AM »
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Cheers thanks for the link
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2011, 01:15:22 PM »
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Coming late to the party, but add me in as one of the epson haters.  My old 4000 and 7600 made me so angry with ink and paper wastage, feed problems, and clogs that I wanted to bash them up with a sledge hammer.  Most of the wastage seemed to be built in by design, too.  I think that some of that like with the black swapping has been changed with the newest versions, but I'm still bitter.

I just bought my second HP Z3200 ... this time a 44inch PS version to replace my perfectly working never a clog 24inch version.   I have been extremely pleased with the cost efficiency of this printer and the quality and easy of use. After hundreds of 17x22 prints, it was still on 10 of the original 12 starter cartridges.   I really love how easy it is to build a profile and calibrate for any paper on the fly, like I did with a stack of old Brite Cube paper I had lying around.   I think were I wanting to invest in a bunch of profiling equipment and spend the time to learn how to really use it, then the Canon might be more attractive.   

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GMB
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« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2011, 04:57:47 AM »
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Just my short experience with the Canon IPF 8300 as compared to the Epson's I have used over the past eight years - 9600, 9800....  I have not used the most current 9900 - I bought the Canon instead Smiley

-The Canon just works and is always ready to go...no worrying about clogged heads and I no longer do a nozzle check - nor the subsequent two to three cleaning cycles - before each print session.  To me, this is a HUGE deal.

-If the profile is good and the correct media setting used, the print quality is amazing and smooth as can be.  If your not seeing this then there is something either wrong with your profile/ settings or there is a defect with the printer/head. 


I am in the process of changing to a new printer (from the Epson 2400) and considering either the Epson of Canon 24" or 44".  I am not a professional and only print form my own pleasure, but like to print big.  What drives me to the Canon are price and the fact the clogging problems on the Epson (I do not print daily).

OTOH, I also do not have the time to spend long hours on creating profiles for the Canon.  So my question would be whether you need to create your own profiles for the Canon.

The alternative would, of course, be to replace the 2400 be the 3880 and give large prints to a professional printer...But then the price difference between the 3800 and the ipf6300 is not that great.  (I am living in Europe where these printers are all significantly more expensive than in the US).

Any advice much appreciated.

Georg
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Czornyj
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« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2011, 05:11:00 AM »
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It's not really necessary to create your own profiles for iPF6300/6350.
I'd definitely go Canon (in fact I've also switched from SP7880 to iPF6350) - it's much more economical in use than SP3880.
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Sven W
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« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2011, 11:12:37 AM »
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(I am living in Europe where these printers are all significantly more expensive than in the US).

Any advice much appreciated.
Georg

I think Epson Europe has nice rebates at the time.
7900 for 3.850 and 9900 goes for 6.225. Plus VAT

/Sven
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