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Author Topic: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0  (Read 39334 times)
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #220 on: February 06, 2011, 11:41:31 AM »
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As we talked late yesterday by phone, I understand the free advertising part much too much and yes understand your other points as well. And no the shots are what they are and not what I like maybe better said it would never make it to my book, but they do illustrate a few things we where after DR, Noise, Detail and Tonal range. I agree I want much more time with these things to really show what I REALLY shoot with these systems. 8 hours is not enough for any reviewer but given only 2 in the country I do understand the time limits. When final units come out I want a couple days or I will just simply not do it.  Too bad I did not have it right now as we head out for a workshop Tuesday morning which would give everyone a chance at shooting with it in some nice light and scenes. Believe me we take mid day breaks and NOT shoot. LOL
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #221 on: February 06, 2011, 11:47:04 AM »
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I should add I did get a chance to Print this morning . Something funky happened to my yellow cartridge on my Epson 7900 so just got a new one in last night made 3 23/30 inch prints and have to say my printer is too small for this monster. Honestly I never seen prints with this much detail before and they can go a whole lot bigger. This thing should come bundled with a Epson 9900 as someone suggested. Me i am still sticking with the 40 mpx chip for now and just get a IQ 140 for the tech but those going big this is pretty amazing. This new sesnor does have something about it I like, just have to see how the final version is.
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bcooter
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« Reply #222 on: February 06, 2011, 12:55:17 PM »
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I came to the provisional conclusion that it really serves the brands whatever they are, serves very little the consummer, and is counter-producer for the photographers involved in most of the cases.

Honestly, I reach a point where I'd like to see less camera testings and maybe more lightning testings for example.


There is a very strange happening in the world of advertising and marketing.  

A company talks and everybody listens and many toe the corporate line just to get close to the company.  

Historically  the only companies that could leverage their brand to lower cost services were the brands that produced innovative or even shocking creative, because associating yourself with higher level creative could move your career forward.

Now, the innovative creative part is gone and in relationship to electronics (cameras included) all anyone talks about is the features, the buttons, the lcd, the pixels . . . . the something, with little reference as to what these machines are used for.

In the world of cameras there is more talk about tech, less talk about the art, the final product, the net reward both artistically and monetarily.

I don't think they are the holy grail but I like Hasselblad's marketing with Victor and the way they present the images that go on their site.  It seems they keep their brand one notch above everyone in the presentation level and that's something I understand.  It also seems they place the photograph (photographer) on an equal level to the camera.  That is something I appreciate.

But in regards to toeing the company line.   The UK version of the TV show Top Gear is unmerciful in the way they review automobiles.  They bash em, slide em, criticize them, adore them, but you always have the feeling it comes from honest opinion.

If you've seen one of their reviews you think why would a company present their product for such scrutiny and potential scorn?  Well, I guess because Top Gear is the number rated TV show in the world with 350,000,000 viewers and these viewers are watching the show with real paying advertising on a real profit making network.

There is something to be said for unabashed honesty presented in a high production setting.   Even if it is only a few people's opinion.


IMO.

BC

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yaya
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« Reply #223 on: February 06, 2011, 01:08:27 PM »
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And in the UK, being a BBC programme it obviously comes ad free when running live on BBC2 :-)

(Episode 3, series 16 starts in 52 minutes BTW...)

Oh and Fred how about taking the initiative and starting a new topic called Lighting Technique, Testing and Reviews???
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Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
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eronald
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« Reply #224 on: February 06, 2011, 01:34:31 PM »
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Sorry James,

 I think there is little innovation on show here because this market hates innovation.

 The fashion companies used to make product, then lens it locally and advertise locally. Now we have a handful of "luxury" conglomerates (LVMH, Chanel) who own ALL the big brands, shoot once and then run identical saturation campaigns in every single market in every single magazine on the inside cover and back cover.

 When you run ONE huge international campaign, you are essentially betting your company on it; there is little margin for this elusive "creativity" factor, and to the contrary the client wants reassurance, control, and a guarantee that the images can be reused in every context.

 I know this is familiar to you, others here may not have realized yet that the "Luxury" brands have declared war on the "Fashion" industry, and one of their tools is relentlessly crowding out the independents via expensive real estate for showrooms, and another is inexorably raising the production values for advertising.

 And to confirm my off-the-top opinions, open any glossy mag, and compare the editorial work, and the expensive advertising pages ...

Edmund

There is a very strange happening in the world of advertising and marketing.  

A company talks and everybody listens and many toe the corporate line just to get close to the company.  

Historically  the only companies that could leverage their brand to lower cost services were the brands that produced innovative or even shocking creative, because associating yourself with higher level creative could move your career forward.

Now, the innovative creative part is gone and in relationship to electronics (cameras included) all anyone talks about is the features, the buttons, the lcd, the pixels . . . . the something, with little reference as to what these machines are used for.

In the world of cameras there is more talk about tech, less talk about the art, the final product, the net reward both artistically and monetarily.

I don't think they are the holy grail but I like Hasselblad's marketing with Victor and the way they present the images that go on their site.  It seems they keep their brand one notch above everyone in the presentation level and that's something I understand.  It also seems they place the photograph (photographer) on an equal level to the camera.  That is something I appreciate.

But in regards to toeing the company line.   The UK version of the TV show Top Gear is unmerciful in the way they review automobiles.  They bash em, slide em, criticize them, adore them, but you always have the feeling it comes from honest opinion.

If you've seen one of their reviews you think why would a company present their product for such scrutiny and potential scorn?  Well, I guess because Top Gear is the number rated TV show in the world with 350,000,000 viewers and these viewers are watching the show with real paying advertising on a real profit making network.

There is something to be said for unabashed honesty presented in a high production setting.   Even if it is only a few people's opinion.


IMO.

BC


« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 01:39:40 PM by eronald » Logged
fredjeang
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« Reply #225 on: February 06, 2011, 01:43:44 PM »
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Oh and Fred how about taking the initiative and starting a new topic called Lighting Technique, Testing and Reviews???
Well, actually I was thinking about opening a thread on that topic that everybody could add their stuff, a little bit like "recent pro works".
That is indeed a good idea.
Those last weeks I've been working a lot with Kinos and I'm starting to get a few configurations that I like.
Anyway, if I do such a thread that would be exclusively with hot lights because I only use (and used) continuous lightning.
Reviews would be out of question as the devices I use are old, nothing of the newest products.
Who knows...
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Gary Ferguson
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« Reply #226 on: February 08, 2011, 03:11:53 AM »
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We answered that one James, you must have missed it  --- it's so you can have the full 4:3 aspect image onscreen PLUS a hitso and highlight warning display. 

Cheers,

Jack, in the UK pretty much everyone I talk to (including Phase distributors) says the aspect ratio is just one necessary step towards a CMOS chip delivering moving images. I wonder if Phase have been open in their development intentions, but there's an NDA in place which is being respected in the US yet in the UK the general view is the cat's out of the bag so what the heck!
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bcooter
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« Reply #227 on: February 08, 2011, 10:13:33 AM »
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Jack, in the UK pretty much everyone I talk to (including Phase distributors) says the aspect ratio is just one necessary step towards a CMOS chip delivering moving images. I wonder if Phase have been open in their development intentions, but there's an NDA in place which is being respected in the US yet in the UK the general view is the cat's out of the bag so what the heck!


If Phase doesn't go with cmos and some video option then I'd be much more than surprised, though if I really wanted to find out I'm sure three dealer phone calls in europe would confirm it.

Regardless for Phase to go forward, (and right now they're kind of on a forward roll), they're going to have to go cmos and video and sorry, but I don't buy the 16x9 lcd thing as a way to show a histogram.

Let's face it, Phase is getting pressure from the low end from Pentax and probably soon Canon, the high end from Hasselblad with a more mature camera system, so to step away from the crowd it's gotta be cmos, higher real iso without downsizing and video.

It just makes sense, especially when they talk about a new camera, because nobody that's not smokin' weed would build an expensive still capture only camera in today's market.

Those guys and girls in Denmark are smart and they have calculator widgets just like the rest of us, so I'm sure they totaled up the RED sales numbers and saw that there was a billion bucks out there in sales waiting for someone to step up.

IMO

BC
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BJNY
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« Reply #228 on: February 08, 2011, 11:25:09 AM »
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Medium format video, really?....as challenging as it is to nail focus with full frame Canon 5d2.

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Guillermo
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« Reply #229 on: February 08, 2011, 11:30:55 AM »
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I posted these links at thread in Motion section

http://vimeo.com/josephhutson/m8unboxing

http://vimeo.com/19626214

Amazed at RED's design, attention to detail (what users want), and ability to manufacture [in the USA].
Obviously, build-quality, too, to withstand rigors of moviemaking.

Wonder how they compare size-wise and sales-wise to Phase One as a company.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 11:34:05 AM by BJNY » Logged

Guillermo
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« Reply #230 on: February 08, 2011, 11:44:37 AM »
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Medium format video, really?....as challenging as it is to nail focus with full frame Canon 5d2.

I agree.  80 Megapixel chip to capture video.  That's like chasing a mosquito with a bazooka.  Even RED is only 14 Megapixel.  Perhaps the highest level still image capture device will offer some sort of video at some point, but I seriously doubt it is a major factor driving design choices at this point.  Just my opinion of course, but I gotta feeling I know smokin' something....:)
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BJNY
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« Reply #231 on: February 08, 2011, 12:01:53 PM »
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Let's say Sensor+ brings it down to 15 or 20mpx,
but nailing focus is hard enough on 24mmx36mm Canon 5d2,
let alone 42mmx56mm size sensor.
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Guillermo
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« Reply #232 on: February 08, 2011, 12:11:31 PM »
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Let's say Sensor+ brings it down to 15 or 20mpx,
but nailing focus is hard enough on 24mmx36mm Canon 5d2,
let alone 42mmx56mm size sensor.


I'm not an engineer, but it doesn't take a lot of foresight to figure Phase could use that pixel binning thing to drop it down to a 4 or 5 k video file.

Canon uses some kind of line skipping to get to 2k, because a 5d2 ain't shooting a 22mpx video file.

Now the next thing is how to process this stuff, cause we've been lightly color adjusting  dailies for 10 days and it ain't easy or fast.

As far as RED's attention to detail, some things they're amazing at, i.e. camera build, packaging, forethought in use, somethings are just goofy lame, like half their instruction pdfs on how to install the red rocket are corrupted.

Sometimes with RED your flying blind, other times your just amazed at what they've done.

In regards to focus, focus ain't easy on anything moving, though when it's moving it's much more forgiving.

The Canons are hard to focus cause the lcd is tiny in comparison to the RED and a lot of people are using Canon's still servo lenses which don't stop at infinity and feel kind of funky when your shooting motion.

I can promise you, if my contax had a big ol' lcd those lenses would be a lot easy to focus than anything Canon makes for stills.

Everybody says bling doesn't matter, but the RED packaging is killa.   When you drop that kind of cash, it's cool to get a package that looks like it's worth the skins. 

I just got a RED Rocket in last week and the package is a work of art.

As far as how much RED makes, it's anybody's guess, though the word is they've sold at least 10,000 RED ONE's.  Run the numbers and that's between half a billion to a billion bucks in sales and they ain't sharing it with any dealers, at least not yet.

With the Epic I'm positive they'll sell a lot more.

IMO

BC
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fredjeang
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« Reply #233 on: February 08, 2011, 02:50:51 PM »
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Not a long time ago, I honestly thought that Red did a mistake pushing the Epic release date, but it works, it bloody works.

I understand that a kind of conservatism is "needed?" for MF manufacturers, but instead of pixel steroids, it would be nice if they could put their team at work and come with really groundbreaking ideas.

This is not just a war about the sacro saint IQ but the nature of the mediums themselves is changing.
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DeeJay
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« Reply #234 on: February 11, 2011, 03:12:43 PM »
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Apologies if this has already been posted. I was gobsmacked by this IQ180 sample.

http://www.phaseone.com/en/Downloads/Sample-images.aspx
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #235 on: February 11, 2011, 03:58:51 PM »
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The raw is even more impressive:

http://www.captureintegration.com/2011/02/04/phase-one-iq180-sample-raws/

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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