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Author Topic: Pentax DFA 25/4 is announced, gets a price.  (Read 7449 times)
Esben
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2011, 07:48:37 PM »
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Did anyone else notice that there is an arrow printed on the lens indicating which end is the front? I guess it really is aimed at the amateur market!



That's the direction of the filter-tray.
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jduncan
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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2011, 07:50:20 PM »
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Wow...  That's pretty spendy for Pentax glass...
I not saying that is not expensive, just that I don't understand why people find it to be.  The 28mm f4.0 from hasselblad cost US $4395.
Looks comparable. I understand that the hasselblad has the central shutter. I insist that I am not disagreeing, I just want to understand why you guys find it expensive
Thanks
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ndevlin
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2011, 09:05:07 PM »
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To me, this pricing, if it holds in the North American market, is a really disappointing development.  The lens looks great, is ground-breaking in the MF lens field, and will produce good images no doubt.

However, the value proposition of the 645D is precisely that: a value proposition.  The camera is lovely, but if I'm paying the top dollar, I would expect the top system. 

Perhaps I am wrong and rich amateurs will take to this lens in numbers. But, as someone who is reasonably well-off, I would never spend this kind of coin for a specialty lens.

In most fields, the top of the market prospers, the bottom end lines prosper too, and the middle gets squeezed. It does seems that very few in this industry spend much time thinking about general business trends and principles, or perhaps are too trapped by their business models to do otherwise.

- N.
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
Radu Arama
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« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2011, 05:59:16 AM »
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Source: dc.watch.impress.co.jp

Radu
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KLaban
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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2011, 06:36:20 AM »
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The price is what it is. I would imagine that anyone who has bought into the Pentax system and needs the 25mm lens will buy it. What's the alternative other than moving on?
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ondebanks
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« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2011, 08:43:46 AM »
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Grin Same thing for not putting aperture ring on it and providing an adapter ring for Phase/Mamiya and Hassy V&H. It is wider than any of those offer!  Shocked

Regards
Anders

No point in an adapter ring for the Hassy V. As is, Pentax 645 glass cannot reach infinity focus on the V cameras, and an adapter ring would only make it worse. You would have to really like wideangle macro shots to make it worthwhile  Cheesy. Not sure about the Hassy H's registration distance. But anyway, how would you shutter the H's and the 500-series V's?

OTOH there is 7.5mm of space for an adapter to Phase/Mamiya 645. That would have been possible.

I generally decry the trend towards aperture mechanisms which can only be operated by the native camera body. It's why I don't buy more 645 AF lenses, and prefer the manual M645 ones if the same spec is available; so I can use them on a FF DSLR etc.

Ray
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cyberean
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« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2011, 12:09:25 PM »
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The price is what it is. I would imagine that anyone who has bought into the Pentax system and needs the 25mm lens will buy it. What's the alternative other than moving on?

one alternative is to bitch
about it in a public forum
...  Cheesy
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tsjanik
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2011, 01:58:55 PM »
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I share Nick’s disappointment with the price.  When it was announced, I assumed I would purchase one, but at 5k, not a chance.  The price is way out of line with pricing in Pentax’s previous 645 offerings.
Although some have noted the price is comparable to the cost of other MF wide lenses, this is a different situation.  The other manufacturers have a clear commitment to their systems and a purchaser has access to accessories and lenses and can reasonably assume further development of the system.  Hoya’s on-again off-again approach to the 645D does not inspire confidence that there will ever be a 645D2.  Lenses for the camera must come from the purchaser’s existing stock or be found in the classifieds or garage sales.  There is currently precisely one lens available for the camera.  Pentax USA has indicated no plans for importation of existing FA lenses into the US.  It’s a great camera at a great price, but buying this camera is frankly, a gamble and the price of that lens makes the bet too large.
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Lacunapratum
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« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2011, 09:03:51 AM »
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Can't believe the responses to this post.  Pentax delivers the widest MF wide angle out there, at a price that is half of the future 30mm Flektogon for the Hy6 and still less than most of its competitors.  Admitted, the 55mm has been a flop, but most of the recent Pentax MF creations have been stellar and surpassed its competition:  the 35mm AL, the 120mm macro, the 300mm, 400mm.  Also the older 600mm is a true gem.  The new 25mm is a full-frame.  None of the others matches that.  It's likely to be spectacular, even though that remains to be seen.  I wonder what people expect from Pentax:  higher quality and lower price?  At this point, I can't see anybody investing into the Pentax system could be disappointed.  A wonderful body, a top sensor, and a dozen stellar Pentax lenses available on the used market.  And a recent history of Pentax investing into top quality (e.g. K5, limited lenses).  Admitted:  5K is a huge chunk, but in comparison I find it more than reasonable. 
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Noel Greene
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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2011, 09:16:09 AM »
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25mm on MF is a great option .. I think it will tempt landscape photographers away from their 5D2's etc .. definitely I will think of it after I read Llyod Chambers review when he gets around to it.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2011, 10:19:21 AM »
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Can't believe the responses to this post.  Pentax delivers the widest MF wide angle out there, at a price that is half of the future 30mm Flektogon for the Hy6 and still less than most of its competitors. 

Same here.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2011, 10:31:35 AM »
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Pentax delivers the widest MF wide angle out there...

Actually this wideness is already available for medium format - and much wider. Since the 645D is an cropped chip SLR-only body which can't go on a tech camera which severely limits the options and quality for very wide-angle and wide tilt/shift lenses.

As a comparison point the following focal lengths would be equal:
P65+ with a 29mm lens*
P25+ with a 27mm lens
645D with a 24mm lens

P65+ with a 23mm lens**
645D with a 18mm lens

P65+ with a 17mm lens***
645D with a 14mm lens

*Phase One 28mm D
**Very Good Rodenstock lens available on a tech camera such as an Arca Swiss RM3D
***Decent Canon TS lens available through the Hartblei tech camera

All that said, huge kudos for releasing a rectilinear autofocus 24mm lens that covers 645 format. That really is a stunning achievement.

It will be interesting to see what corner performance it is able to achieve at the corners of a 645 frame - any ideas on how we could test that on a small-micron digital 645 sensor (which will be very different than film)? I guess maybe the Hartblei camera with a Pentax-to-Canon adapter. You'd have to use the drop-the-battery-while-DOF-Preview-is-activated to stop the lens down though as there would be no electronic aperture control

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2011, 10:36:57 AM »
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Can't say I'm impressed by those sample images as they shot ALLOT of CA and smearing at f11...but this could be down to early prototypes + poor processing

Yair (who was burnt with this sort of thing before...)

To be fair the Phase One 28mm D shows a decent amount of smear and CA at the far frame edge on a P65+ sensor, which is roughly the same FOV as a 24mm on a 645D when viewing the image with lens corrections off.

So as you said it's only fair to wait for a final shipping version.

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bcooter
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« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2011, 03:09:38 PM »
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Same here.

Cheers,
Bernard


Good glass is expensive.   Actually still photographers have gotten off cheap for a long time (except Leica still photographers), but even exotic Canon and Nikon lenses cost a lot in relation to their user base.  Obviously they sell more, the price goes down, etc. etc.  Plus Nikon and Canon can sell a lost leader to make their brand more enticing to the consumer, but that's the issue, they're selling to "consumers".

I really wish we'd get past this cheap equipment thing.

Sure like everyone, I don't want to spend just to spend and I want more options with professional equipment, but professional systems should be expensive . . . that's why they're professional.

I know it's becoming a 5d2 world but Jezz that's such of lump of plastic.     I know it does a lot, I know it's a good price, but I love dedicated equipment that has a professional purpose and I can prove it because I had two Canon 50mm 1.4's and one Nikon 28mm lense that met their final resting place in the middle of some field, 30 yards "away" from my set.



IMO

BC
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 03:12:46 PM by bcooter » Logged
Radu Arama
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« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2011, 04:09:37 PM »
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I share Nick’s disappointment with the price.  When it was announced, I assumed I would purchase one, but at 5k, not a chance.  The price is way out of line with pricing in Pentax’s previous 645 offerings.
Although some have noted the price is comparable to the cost of other MF wide lenses, this is a different situation.  The other manufacturers have a clear commitment to their systems and a purchaser has access to accessories and lenses and can reasonably assume further development of the system.  Hoya’s on-again off-again approach to the 645D does not inspire confidence that there will ever be a 645D2.  Lenses for the camera must come from the purchaser’s existing stock or be found in the classifieds or garage sales.  There is currently precisely one lens available for the camera.  Pentax USA has indicated no plans for importation of existing FA lenses into the US.  It’s a great camera at a great price, but buying this camera is frankly, a gamble and the price of that lens makes the bet too large.


Although nobody seems to care Pentax actually outlined the next three lenses within a three year planed schedule: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=51261.0 and this seems to me to guarantee that the current 645D will have either a successor, or a new "sister" or most likely both. About current lenses my take is that they expected that old stocks will last a lot more time but the camera seems such a hit in Japan that its success both postponed the launch in other markets and probably depleted that stock of "new/old" lenses. A cursory glance at a Japanese site returned no less than 37 outfits (from e-stores to magazine chains to Amazon.jp) that sell 645D camera and I assume most of them tried to also have whatever new lens they could get.

I feel that Pentax always targeted the first wave of 645D buyers from people with Pentax 645 film cameras and some lenses (and even hefty collections). There is also the 67 lens + adapter route if one is not concerned with AF. I think that Pentax will restart to mass produce a lot of FA 645 lenses and there are  a lot of proven designs that seem to perform well on 645D and retail for less than 2000 Euro (120/4 Macro, 150/2.8, 200/4, 300/5.6, 35/3.5). The roadmap also suggests that neither of those will be replaced until 2015 so there is no need to wait and see. The same roadmap says that three zooms of about 7000 Euro worth will be replaced by two modern designs.

In the end while one's mileage may vary historically Pentax USA is the foster child of the Pentax family and their (once again) gross mistake in judging the demand on the US market will generate a lot of frustration.

Radu
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tsjanik
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« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2011, 07:08:46 PM »
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Can't believe the responses to this post.  Pentax delivers the widest MF wide angle out there..................   
I suspect most of the people aghast at the price have purchased, or intend to purchase, a 645D and have found the only wide angle lens available will set them back $5000.  Others can be more philosophical about the cost.  If there were other, less cutting-edge lenses available, the users of the 645D might be less concerned.  Had Pentax introduced say a 30mm f/4.5 for $2000 prior to, or simultaneously with the 25mm, I don’t think you would hear the protests, rather the response might be: the 30mm is affordable and is fine for what I do, but I’m happy to see Pentax’s commitment to producing outstanding lenses.

IMHO

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JohnBrew
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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2011, 08:19:29 PM »
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Remember the old axiom, "it's not the camera it's the lens that counts". Duly noted.
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« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2011, 01:50:09 PM »
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AFAIK, 35mm is the widest S2 lens, at $6500; it is f/2.5 however.


The next lenses to be released for the S2 (probably this year) will be a 30mm f/2.8 and a 24mm f/3.5, both rectilinear. Price and a specific release date has not been announced yet.

David


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ondebanks
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« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2011, 05:43:19 AM »
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It will be interesting to see what corner performance it is able to achieve at the corners of a 645 frame - any ideas on how we could test that on a small-micron digital 645 sensor (which will be very different than film)? I guess maybe the Hartblei camera with a Pentax-to-Canon adapter.

As I said above, there is enough space (7.5mm depth) for a simple adapter from Pentax 645 lenses to Phase/Mamiya 645 bodies. I am actually surprised that this has not been done yet - ebay has cheap adapters for just about all the other MF SLR brand lenses to Mamiya 645, and for Pentax 645 lenses to just about all 35mm DSLRs. It would be cool if our friends in China/HK perceived a market for this missing link, P645 -> M645...but the window might have passed, now that the 645D is out and P645 lens hoarders have the MF digital body that they were waiting and waiting for.

You'd have to use the drop-the-battery-while-DOF-Preview-is-activated to stop the lens down though as there would be no electronic aperture control

What a nuisance! This is precisely why I said "I generally decry the trend towards aperture mechanisms which can only be operated by the native camera body".

Hartblei did manage to emulate the Canon EOS electronic aperture control, but doing so for the P645 lenses is probably just too niche-y to be worth the candle...
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Radu Arama
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2011, 10:09:54 AM »
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First detailed user review with samples made by our friend Hark Lee (hopefully he will post the same here):

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-medium-format-645-6x7-645d/149579-pentax-d-fa-645-25mm-f-4-al-if-aw-review.html

It is important that there is no lens profile at this moment and the pictures reflect strictly the optical capabilities of this lens without much computer enhancements (well he used the generic CA removal plug in from PS).

Radu
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