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Author Topic: Isadora Duncan  (Read 5958 times)
ah100m
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« on: February 15, 2011, 11:33:16 PM »
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Boy, I thought that the legend of what kind of car Isadora Duncan died in died (sorry) a long time ago.  She was killed in an Amilcar, a rather pedestrian French car, not a Bugatti. 

And just to anticipate another common error, the Bugatti was French (the real ones, not the current "exercise"), not Italian.

Bill Schmidt
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alainbriot
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2011, 12:25:50 AM »
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Bugattis were made in France, in Molsheim, which is in Alsace, in Northern France, near the frontier with Germany.

However, Ettore Buggatti was Italian (from Milan).  This is why the brand is often associated with Italy.  
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Rob C
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 02:56:25 AM »
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French, Italian, or even German, the moral still remains: avoid long scarves at all costs.

Rob C
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 09:14:54 AM »
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Bugattis were made in France, in Molsheim, which is in Alsace, in Northern France, near the frontier with Germany.

However, Ettore Buggatti was Italian (from Milan).  This is why the brand is often associated with Italy.  
Wasn't Ettore the guy who said "Cars were made to go, not stop."?

Eric
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alainbriot
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 09:28:25 AM »
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Eric,

I'm not aware of this quote but he might.  EB was a character and had very personal views on what automobiles should be and how they should be built. He did not want hammers in his shop, because well-made parts should fit by hand pressure, not by hitting them with a hammer.  He did not use gaskets when assembling the engine, again because well-built parts should fit metal to metal.  The joining surfaces were 'guillochetted' a process that creates a slight texture, and that was it.  The Royale, his most luxurious car, had ivory control knobs...

This extreme approach is carried on today through the Veyron.  Gone are the ivory knobs and gasket-less engine contruction, but the extreme design is still present. The Veyron uses 8 radiators to cool it's massive W-16 engine (16 cylinders in 4 rows of 4), each of them hand made. The engine generates massive amounts of heat, so much so that on the first test run the car caught on fire, and more radiators than originally planned had to be used in the final version.  The car comes with 2 keys, the first one unleashes 500 hp, the second one another 500, for when the first 500 are not enough... At full speed, the car will empty the gas tank in 15 minutes or so. All that for a price equivalent to 8 well-appointed Porsches. Definitely a want and not a need!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 09:39:24 AM by alainbriot » Logged

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francois
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 10:24:44 AM »
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All that for a price equivalent to 8 well-appointed Porsches. Definitely a want and not a need!
At that kind of price, an IQ180 back seems very cheap!  Cheesy
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 10:58:27 AM by francois » Logged

Francois
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2011, 10:36:01 AM »
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Quote
At full speed, the car will empty the gas tank in 15 minutes or so.

True, but I believe you'd melt the tires before then...  Tongue

Mike.
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2011, 10:50:30 AM »
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True, but I believe you'd melt the tires before then...  Tongue

Mike.

You are correct, and to remedy this problem Bugatti asked Michelin to design tyres specifically for the Veyron.  I think they're 25k apiece and have to be mounted and unmounted at the Michelin factory in Clermont Ferrand, in France, at a very high cost.  Fixing a flat is a little bit more complicated than driving to the local 'Discount Tires' store!
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2011, 11:00:41 AM »
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Eric,

I'm not aware of this quote but he might.  EB was a character and had very personal views on what automobiles should be and how they should be built. He did not want hammers in his shop, because well-made parts should fit by hand pressure, not by hitting them with a hammer.  He did not use gaskets when assembling the engine, again because well-built parts should fit metal to metal.  The joining surfaces were 'guillochetted' a process that creates a slight texture, and that was it.  The Royale, his most luxurious car, had ivory control knobs...

This extreme approach is carried on today through the Veyron.  Gone are the ivory knobs and gasket-less engine contruction, but the extreme design is still present. The Veyron uses 8 radiators to cool it's massive W-16 engine (16 cylinders in 4 rows of 4), each of them hand made. The engine generates massive amounts of heat, so much so that on the first test run the car caught on fire, and more radiators than originally planned had to be used in the final version.  The car comes with 2 keys, the first one unleashes 500 hp, the second one another 500, for when the first 500 are not enough... At full speed, the car will empty the gas tank in 15 minutes or so. All that for a price equivalent to 8 well-appointed Porsches. Definitely a want and not a need!
This fits well with what I have heard about him as a legend. I've only seen two or three (classic) Bugattis in my life. If I owned a Veyron today, I might well be tempted to trade it for a couple of good MF systems (probably Phase 1), plus a couple of assistants to carry the gear for me.

Eric
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Rob C
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2011, 11:06:43 AM »
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This fits well with what I have heard about him as a legend. I've only seen two or three (classic) Bugattis in my life. If I owned a Veyron today, I might well be tempted to trade it for a couple of good MF systems (probably Phase 1), plus a couple of assistants to carry the gear for me.Eric



At the price, you'd have bought them (and their familes) for life; be careful what you wish!

Rob C
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ah100m
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2011, 11:14:17 AM »
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The quote about "my cars were meant to go, not stop" I think was originally attributed to W.O. Bentley when the brakes of his cars (in the 1930's) were criticized.

Bill Schmidt
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2011, 11:17:48 AM »
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Quote
This fits well with what I have heard about him as a legend. I've only seen two or three (classic) Bugattis in my life. If I owned a Veyron today, I might well be tempted to trade it for a couple of good MF systems (probably Phase 1), plus a couple of assistants to carry the gear for me.

At roughly $2.8M US, you could get a lot of assistance!

Mike.
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vandevanterSH
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2011, 03:27:38 PM »
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All that for a price equivalent to 8 well-appointed Porsches. Definitely a want and not a need!
********
A front engine Ferrari GT is a much more practical photography road trip car, especially for the Southwest USA.

Steve
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2011, 04:50:20 PM »
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Actually the quote IS attributed to Ettore. Supposedly said to a client who complained when the car was in for service at Molsheim. I've been lucky enough to ride in several Bugatti during vintage car events and have seen many, many others. One of my good friends had a type 35 and raced it often.  I believe it is now in the Ford museum. I have good memories of a type 57S another friend had and I will never forget the sound of that straight eight.

I'm still wondering how this thread got on a photography forum?
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alainbriot
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 06:29:39 PM »
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I'm still wondering how this thread got on a photography forum?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/does_equipment_affect_creativity_some_new_jewels_from_alpa.shtml
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Alain Briot
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 10:58:33 PM »
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The quote about "my cars were meant to go, not stop" I think was originally attributed to W.O. Bentley when the brakes of his cars (in the 1930's) were criticized.

Bill Schmidt
I found a web forum with a couple of comments that seem to support my version:

One poster: "It was Emile Bugatti who produced small cars with powerful 4cyl engines and great chassis dynamics (for the time), who said that; "Bentley, produced the fastest trucks in Europe!"

Another poster said the quote was: "Mr Bentley makes a fine racing lorry."

The next poster replied: "Bugatti's comment about Bentley lorries was a payback for criticism by Bentley of Bugatti brakes.
Bugatti also responded that his cars were meant to go not stop!!!!!"

But my research didn't turn up anything more definitive than this. So if any of you folks would like to give me a Bugatti and a Rolls, I'll be happy to write a comparative review of their braking systems.

Eric
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ah100m
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2011, 11:38:56 PM »
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EMILE Bugatti!!??

Shows how much you can believe what's posted on the web!

Seriously, this quote by W. O. Bentley was common knowledge 'way back before there was a Darpanet, let alone an Internet.  It was not ETTORE Bugatti who said it.

Bill Schmidt
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2011, 06:20:59 AM »
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Try The Kings of the Road by Ken Purdy. I believe it came out in 1963. My source for the quote.
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John.Murray
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2011, 04:38:54 PM »
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sorry to change the subject........ 

How about a proper image of the Alpa+Phase setup itself?  I mean you *had* an S2 there, right?Huh
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400Trix
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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2011, 11:45:00 AM »
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Boy, I thought that the legend of what kind of car Isadora Duncan died in died (sorry) a long time ago.  She was killed in an Amilcar, a rather pedestrian French car, not a Bugatti. 

And just to anticipate another common error, the Bugatti was French (the real ones, not the current "exercise"), not Italian.

Bill Schmidt

"Buggatti" was Mme Duncan's pet name for her lover, who was driving the Amilcar, which was likely a Racer, and anything but pedestrian. There were rather boring Amilcar's produced in the 30's, but the 20's models were another matter entirely, as was the later Pegase, which must be seen to be believed.

Archer
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