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Author Topic: Fuji X100  (Read 13220 times)
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 10:57:49 AM »
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"......one sweet little box that will become a 'must have' camera..."

Well YOU said it better than I can!    As they say; "I rest my case".........
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feppe
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2011, 02:28:18 PM »
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I'm also entirely underwhelmed by X100, and have really hard time understanding the hype no matter what objective angle I take. The closest to understanding it is that it's a rangefinder, which for some inexplicable reason have a rabid following.

Also there's a lot of oohs and aahs about the hybrid eyepiece, which is AFAICT nothing more than a standard EVF, or with the flip of a switch OVF with superimposed exposure data - something which we've had for, what, two decades in film cameras.

I do think it's a serious camera and it sure looks nice - but so does Olympus Pen, Leica M9 and numerous other cameras in all price ranges - and has a large sensor, but it's huge for what it is and has a fixed lens.

Haven't really taken a look at the image samples since I'm not interested in buying the camera, but pundits on the internets have been disappointed with the IQ. If I ever see it in a store I'll take it for a quick spin to see what's so special about it. If it delivers on what it promises, it might be a compelling product for those who can live with its limitations.
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jasonrandolph
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2011, 03:48:13 PM »
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Holgas aren't considered to be "serious" cameras by many people either, but some darn fine images have been made with them.  The same can be said for the iPhone too.  Bottom line is that it is just another tool, and everyone chooses the tool they most enjoy working with and gives them the results they can reasonably expect to get from it.  Some will choose the X100, and others will look elsewhere. 
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 04:13:44 PM »
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I'm also entirely underwhelmed by X100, and have really hard time understanding the hype no matter what objective angle I take. The closest to understanding it is that it's a rangefinder, which for some inexplicable reason have a rabid following.

Also there's a lot of oohs and aahs about the hybrid eyepiece, which is AFAICT nothing more than a standard EVF, or with the flip of a switch OVF with superimposed exposure data - something which we've had for, what, two decades in film cameras.

I do think it's a serious camera and it sure looks nice - but so does Olympus Pen, Leica M9 and numerous other cameras in all price ranges - and has a large sensor, but it's huge for what it is and has a fixed lens.

Haven't really taken a look at the image samples since I'm not interested in buying the camera, but pundits on the internets have been disappointed with the IQ. If I ever see it in a store I'll take it for a quick spin to see what's so special about it. If it delivers on what it promises, it might be a compelling product for those who can live with its limitations.

In order:

a.  It's entirely fair for someone to be underwhelmed with any camera.  I'm under whelmed with any camera I can't apply to my style or workflow. 

b.  I don't think people are excited because it's a rangefinder.  I think they're excited because the OVF provides something not commonly available in the mirrorless class of cameras.  We have what 'could be' a better choice than using an LCD or EVF if properly implemented.  Having the choice of all three, is much better than the choice of only 1 or 2.  The OVF adds to the way you use the camera in the same way the aperture ring, shutter dial, etc. does.  It allows the camera to be used in a different way which may be more comfortable.

c.  As far as size goes, it is larger than the E-PL2, GF-1, etc.. but not by much.  It's certainly still in the same class.  2mm wider than the X1, 3mm taller than the GF-1 and the same width as the NEX-5.  Or.. we could say it's thinner than the GF-1 or DP2 and lighter than the GF-1..  So "huge" compared to these I don't think is accurate.

d.  The last time I remember pundits 'not' being disappointed with images from a pre-release camera.. was the Canon 1ds Mark II?  A long time ago.  Criticism of pre-release and even product cameras in reviewers hands is quite common no matter which camera.  "Pundits" generally only think the images are good when they take them.. Smiley

e.  I'm personally not excited about the X100 because it will be replacing my working cameras.  I'm excited because it promises to be a much better option than my current non-working cameras for personal and casual use.  It promises to be satisfying for casual travel as well.  I see it actually being better for 'some' of my work where it comes to street photography in my particular area.  And I'm really excited to have a camera with the manual controls and high build quality.. I'm hoping it catches on to DSLR's.  I realize this is personal, but I think there are a lot of people raised on old style SLR's and rangefinders who will really appreciate the controls and build quality of the X100..

Of course none of this will mean squat if the lens, electronics, and image quality doesn't measure up.  I hope they got it right.
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douglasf13
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« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2011, 01:32:12 PM »
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I'm also entirely underwhelmed by X100, and have really hard time understanding the hype no matter what objective angle I take. The closest to understanding it is that it's a rangefinder, which for some inexplicable reason have a rabid following.

Also there's a lot of oohs and aahs about the hybrid eyepiece, which is AFAICT nothing more than a standard EVF, or with the flip of a switch OVF with superimposed exposure data - something which we've had for, what, two decades in film cameras...

  An OVF is a big deal for a digital camera that has AF and doesn't use a mirror, and being able to use a live histogram with an OVF and AF is very new. IMO, the hybrid OVF is the main reason to consider the camera.  Granted, there are other things that make the camera great for some users:

-built in ND filter
-essentially silent shutter
-physical dials
-sync flash to 1/1000
-yes, the form and build quality of the camera

  Personally, I'm an all M mode shooter, and just about any modern DSLR, MFDB or mirrorless camera offers what I need in regards to options... ie. very little.  So, the camera size, how the camera feels in the hand, and the viewing and focusing methods of the camera are rather important to me.
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BFoto
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« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2011, 10:28:13 AM »
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  An OVF is a big deal for a digital camera that has AF and doesn't use a mirror, and being able to use a live histogram with an OVF and AF is very new. IMO, the hybrid OVF is the main reason to consider the camera.  Granted, there are other things that make the camera great for some users:

-built in ND filter
-essentially silent shutter
-physical dials
-sync flash to 1/1000
-yes, the form and build quality of the camera

  Personally, I'm an all M mode shooter, and just about any modern DSLR, MFDB or mirrorless camera offers what I need in regards to options... ie. very little.  So, the camera size, how the camera feels in the hand, and the viewing and focusing methods of the camera are rather important to me.

I tend to agree.

There r some potentially excellent features of this camera. I have the GF1 and love it. The only thing stopping me from testing this one is the fixed lens. If this had interchangable lenses at the quality they speak of this could amazing.

Remember, the wholy grail is to find the poor mans leica....or rephrased, a similar but not quite as good build, lens, and image quality as a leica for an 8th of the price.
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jasonrandolph
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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2011, 03:25:59 PM »
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Not to start any rumors/conspiracy theories, but considering MR is such a huge Leica fan, I find it a bit peculiar that he has been silent on the X100.  Granted, he's down in Mexico at present, but perhaps he has been trying one out and is bound by a NDA from giving us his impressions.  I'm sure we'll be hearing from him soon after its officially release.  It will be interesting to get his opinion on the camera.
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feppe
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2011, 11:16:50 AM »
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Samples posted on DPReview.

Base ISO looks ok to good to me. But take a look at the 6400 ISO sample, it's remarkable!
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John Camp
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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2011, 01:03:48 PM »
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I'm a skeptic, but there are different kinds of skepticism. I think that it might be nice to handle and have good IQ, but I'm skeptical about its salability. And if it doesn't sell, support will die. I am also somewhat skeptical about its general usability -- most people, including me, really do want (need) either a zoom (even a short zoom) or interchangeable lenses.

About the banana photo -- that ISO 6400 *is* pretty interesting.

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LKaven
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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2011, 01:59:34 PM »
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What do others think of a full-frame compact with a hybrid viewfinder and interchangeable lenses as a concept, with build quality up to at least Fujiblad standards.  If the hybrid setup were elegant enough, I think it would be a smash.  The overlay could optionally just give you the cues you needed without being intrusive -- focus indication with feature detection and framelines.  Set the feature detection for 'eyes' and watch the subtle focus indicators move from eye to eye as you move the focus.  No more rangefinder patch, no more focus and recompose.  Do others want this as much as I do?
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2011, 02:43:22 AM »
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@Luke: +1
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Craig Arnold
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« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2011, 09:05:22 AM »
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I know that my dentist wants one and is looking forward to hanging it around his neck.    From what he has said, I think he is hoping that it will make him look sexy and might just attract a woman.     Of course, it's a long time since he took a picture, even longer since he looked sexy and a very, VERY long time since he had a woman........

Oh no, you mean it won't make me attractive to women? I wish I had known before I put in my order - had to pay 100% down in order to secure the camera. Obviously a lot of dentists out there!  Wink

It's what I've wanted for years.
  • Substantially smaller and lighter than a high-end DSLR.
  • Smaller too than an M-mount rangefinder camera.
  • Substantially cheaper than an M9.
  • Rangefinder-like viewfinder, i.e. a 0.5x magnification, with bright lines showing the area that will be captured.
  • Minimalist and beautiful design.
  • Fixed focal length. I'd prefer closer to 50, but 35 will do.
  • Built-in flash for fill.
  • Much higher quality than a P&S, even something like the S95.

I won't be ditching the 5D2, this will be replacing the Panasonic P&S I own but never use.

It will likely be relegating my Zeiss Ikon (and the thrice-damned Coolscan) to only very occasional use too. I love rangefinder cameras, but I also like digital. Can't afford an M9. Tough luck for me eh? Well it has been until now.  Grin

This will be my carry-everywhere camera.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 09:12:01 AM by Craig Arnold » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2011, 03:13:05 AM »
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"I won't be ditching the 5D2, this will be replacing the Panasonic P&S I own but never use."......

.............Presumably then, it will become the fuji x100 you own but never use...........I can certainly envisage that happening.
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Craig Arnold
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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2011, 03:37:49 AM »
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"I won't be ditching the 5D2, this will be replacing the Panasonic P&S I own but never use."......

.............Presumably then, it will become the fuji x100 you own but never use...........I can certainly envisage that happening.

So if you can imagine it it must be true? LOL.

Actually at the moment I carry either my 5D2 or Zeiss Ikon with me just about all the time. Which I take depends, on any given day, on whether I'm more irritated at the weight of the Canon or the prospect of scanning the output of the ZI.

But of course you might be right. I might buy it and never use it.  Huh
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AFairley
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2011, 07:52:33 PM »
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What do others think of a full-frame compact with a hybrid viewfinder and interchangeable lenses as a concept, with build quality up to at least Fujiblad standards.  If the hybrid setup were elegant enough, I think it would be a smash.  The overlay could optionally just give you the cues you needed without being intrusive -- focus indication with feature detection and framelines.  Set the feature detection for 'eyes' and watch the subtle focus indicators move from eye to eye as you move the focus.  No more rangefinder patch, no more focus and recompose.  Do others want this as much as I do?

Expect the Leica M series to end up there, logical progression for them.
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LKaven
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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2011, 08:03:31 PM »
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Expect the Leica M series to end up there, logical progression for them.
I used to write wishes in the Leica forum for this.  My wanting it has apparently not made them come up with it any faster.  But I figure at this point, something has to be on the prototype bench.

Which makes me wonder.  Wouldn't Fuji be just the people you'd want to see if you were Leica and you wanted a prototype built.  Maybe the X-100 is the outcome of/escapee from such a collaboration.  Then again, Fuji is just nutty enough to go this way on their own.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2011, 01:58:27 AM »
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I strongly believe the future is EVIL once the EV part is solved and the OV not better any longer.
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jasonrandolph
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« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2011, 03:20:48 PM »
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I strongly believe the future is EVIL once the EV part is solved and the OV not better any longer.

I agree.  However, my experience with the Oly E-P2 EVF tells me that we are a long way away from the day when EVFs beat out the OVF.  EVFs are great in good light, but they clearly show their shortcomings  at night.  It's like watching a TV with lowsy reception (back in the days before we had digital signals). 

With a camera like the X100, that appears to have great results to ISO 6400, you need a viewfinder/LCD that will allow you to properly compose your images in low light, and sadly, nothing beats out an OVF for such cases.  We can only hope that this problem will be resolved sooner rather than later.
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LKaven
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« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2011, 04:48:33 AM »
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An EVF capable of 4k resolution at 120 fps with a 10 msec latency would be nice. 

I do think there will be some convergence in the near term that will favor the EVF.  In my view, the next milestone will be the ability to record video from downsampling full frame captures in real time, instead of using decimation.  This will come first at 24/25/30fps, and later 50/60.  This process will produce beautiful HD frames, which can be streamed to the EVF as well as to storage. 
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Craig Arnold
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« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2011, 06:09:25 AM »
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Well, I don't have the camera yet obviously.

But I like the idea of the hybrid finder, it's something that might have significant application in a lot of different cameras.

There may be a great deal of interesting innovation in this area with DSLRs too. I'm guessing Sony might go first with a development of their semi-transparent mirrors into a true hybrid design.
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