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Author Topic: Which new profiling/calibrating device for wide gamut display etc.  (Read 9638 times)
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2011, 01:38:27 PM »
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Hi,

In general I'd suggest that you either need a colorimeter matched to the characteristics of your screen or a spectrometer. The spectro measures all colors, while the colorimeter measures only three. The colorimeter does measure those three colors well.

Now your screen can really emit three colors (called primaries), which is a combination of backlight and the color filter grid array in front of the screen. So if the colorimeter is well matched to the light your screen can actually emit it can work very well.

A spectrometer is a more generic device.

Best regards
Erik


Thanks! I really appreciate your help.

OK, My default choice now seems to be the ColorMunki.

However, I am curious about the DISCUS, which I understand this will give superior profiles in the darker colors.

Now, although I do understand how to colormanage my workflow, and have successfully been doing so for several years, I am really no expert on the technicalities so it is impossible for me to evaluate the product based on figures and numbers. So, two more questions:

What am I getting:
Is it possible to describe the difference in user experience when using a display calibrated with the Discus compared to the ColorMunki? Is the separation in darker colors clearly better on the screen, or is it just if you look closely?  Is it enough to really make editing my editing digital files and printing on my HP Z3200ps easier?

Ease of use:
I am certainly both willing and able to learn complicated stuff, but my hobby is photography rather than color management. If this thing requires something like learning to master SPSS+ or Mathematica (I use both)  it will be too demanding for my use.  


Christopher

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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 03:17:06 AM »
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Which means that you should get the Eizo colorimeter that is adapted for the display you have.
The Z3200-PS APS colorimeter (E1DII HP branded but standard) isn't meant for wide gamut displays as I understand it and the one used in the HP Dreamcolor package is adapted for the 2480 etc monitor, so different species.
A spectrometer will be more universal including measuring a wider variety of monitors with some disadvantages compared to colorimeters used for monitors. Which can be compensated to a degree with the measuring method.

A long thread that goes somewhat deeper, I found it before I bought a wide gamut monitor some years ago:

http://lists.apple.com/archives/Colorsync-users/2008/Sep/msg00658.html

Edit: Reading the Prad review of the LG W2420R with a similar Spyder colorimeter solution I get more doubts that that colorimeter is consistent enough. With the LG there is however a solution that the Eye 1 Pro can be used with the software bundled. That might be possible too with ColorNavigator, the Eye 1 Basic would then be the cheapest Eye 1.

Edit: On your fear? that the Eye 1 Pro will outperform the Z3200 spectro profiles, I don't think so, Color Center or APS are both good. But the Eye 1 Basic could be a good addition to the Z's capabilities if you get the normal Non-UV-cut Eye 1 Basic. The Z's spectro doesn't measure into UV. Varnished canvas isn't easy to profile on the Z. B&W profiling tools like QTR profile creator can be used with a separate spectrometer.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla


New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm


« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 06:52:24 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
HCHeyerdahl
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 12:07:38 AM »
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Thanks everybody for your thoughts on this. Much appreciated

Upgrading is always somewhat of a hazzel. I often find it difficult to decide how much of an upgrade I really need. Nice to have equipment rarely gets used and is money wasted, but so is equipment that some months down the line actually turn out to be lacking in features I want to use!

I talked to an Eizo representative, and his opinion was that profiling with the ColorMunki would be pretty much on par with the built in device.  I also ended up getting a very good discount on the ColorMunki Photo spectro from my dealer. Too good to say no really, so I decided to try it out and see if it works well enough for me and my equipment. If it doesnīt I can sell it without loosing much and upgrade to the i1, Discus or  Smiley  Definitely convenient that it can profile both my displays (the CM Design will not).



Christopher
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alfin
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 02:07:28 PM »
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From ICC profiles. Three sample profiles created after three various calibrations with gamma 2,2 chosen as a target:


OK, I donít fully understand what that means, so Iím grateful if you explain to me.

I hope Christopher has got the answers he wanted, so I can try to understand what you mean with that EasyPIX2 doesnít do a true hardware calibration.

Hereís what I did. I removed all the monitor profiles from the computer and restarted everything. Prior to doing so, I calibrated the monitor to some far edge values that was easy to recognize; brightness 60 cd/m2, contrast 74%, colortemp 5000K, gamma 2.4, gamut sRGB and RGB values 100%, 85%, 65%. This is about what EasyPIX allows you to enter.

I restarted the computer again and itís obvious that thereís no monitor calibration change. Using Eizo Screen Manager Pro, this can easily be confirmed. Checking via Photoshop CS5, thereís no monitor profile in use, Photoshop reports sRGB as monitor profile, but the screen hasnít changed.

Obviously, Eizo is saving the calibration status in the monitor LUT and the only way to get rid of it is to reset the monitor to its factory settings. I can restore any monitor calibration again by copying the monitor ICC-profiles back to its original folder and load it with EasyPIX.

Now, please explain to me in what way the rTRC-gTRC-bTRC tags in the ICC profile has anything to do with the calibration status saved in the monitor LUT and why you don't consider EasyPIX a true hardware calibration solution. Thanks!

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Lars Mollerstrom
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2011, 12:26:55 AM »
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I think ColorMunki should be ok - it's supported by ColorNavigator and unofficially suported by EasyPIX2, so there's a chance you could calibrate both CG243W and SX2462W in a most convenient way with this spectro.


Turns out that EasyPIX2 does not find the ColorMunki Photo on my computer (PC win7). I have read a few threads that it will work like you suggest.

Do you happen to know how to make the software communicate with the CM, or prehaps there is a beta version floating around with support for the CM?

Christopher
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Czornyj
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2011, 08:00:38 AM »
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Do you happen to know how to make the software communicate with the CM, or prehaps there is a beta version floating around with support for the CM?

You need a special, top-secret library that adds CM support in EasyPIX2. It's unavailable for common morals, but you may torture your EIZO dealer until you get it.
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HCHeyerdahl
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2011, 01:18:16 PM »
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LOL!

Actually, same time I posted my question to you here, I posted a similar request on a norwegian foto forum. At 11:36 Sunday morning I recieved an email from the Norwegian EIZO distributor with a patch!!  NICE  Grin

Christopher
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Czornyj
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« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2011, 10:33:07 AM »
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OK, I donít fully understand what that means, so Iím grateful if you explain to me.

The idea of full hardware calibration is that it's suppose to measure the native TRC of the display, and correct it in an internal LUT to get perfect linearity without any tonal loss. Problem is that EasyPIX2 doesn't seem to provide it.

It's basing on ColorNavigator engine, but it works in a different way - for example there's no grayscale iteration while calibration process. It automatically calibrates the luminance of backlight and the whitepoint using RGB gain, you can see it changes the Luminance & RGB gain % values in an OSD menu. But there's simply no trace of full internal LUT access - there should be some grayscale iteration calibration process, and after the internal LUT modification the resulting profile's r-g-bTRC tags should have the same gamma value as the gamma value that was chosen as a calibration target.

The lack of grayscale iteration, and the various r-g-bTRC tag values seem to suggest, that EasyPIX2 only calibrates luminance and white point internally, measures few grayscale patches and calculates the averaged gamma value of resulting TRC of the display, that is saved as r-g-bTRC tags in an ICC profile of the display.

Of course, in a matter of sense, the automatic luminance and RGB gain calibration is something that we may call "hardware calibration" process. But it's not the same as hardware calibration with full internal high-bit LUT access, that e.g. is performed in case of ColorNavigator + ColorEdge series display solution.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 10:45:54 AM by Czornyj » Logged

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