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Author Topic: Wanting to learn MF equipment  (Read 9020 times)
AvidVisionary
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2011, 11:54:58 AM »
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Right, first of all. If I knew the technical language of what to type into google to get my answers then I would have.

Secondly, if you answered the question without looking down upon those you see below your superior knowledge then I would have picked up something from your answer and followed the trail.

Lastly, if you are going to talk down on people who are new to the field then you have done the exact opposite of reaching out and guiding them.
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Kevin Raber
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2011, 12:47:59 PM »
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Phase One offers medium format workshops at a number of different locations around the world.  These workshops are all inclusive so all you need to do is get there.  You'll be provided a Phase One P65+ camera system to use during the workshop and you'll also learn workflow, prepping files for printing as well as some terrific photographic opportunities with world class instructors.  You can learn more at www.phaseone.com/podas or www.podas.info.  Lots of other benefits too.  Hope you check them out.

Kevin Raber
VP Phase One PODAS workshops
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Kevin Raber
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Gigi
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2011, 02:33:05 PM »
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Right, first of all. If I knew the technical language of what to type into google to get my answers then I would have.

Secondly, if you answered the question without looking down upon those you see below your superior knowledge then I would have picked up something from your answer and followed the trail.

Lastly, if you are going to talk down on people who are new to the field then you have done the exact opposite of reaching out and guiding them.

With all due respect, it has been gently recommended that you read information that exists on this site - in great detail. And also manufacturers sites. It doesn't seem to have had much impact. 
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Geoff
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2011, 02:37:18 PM »
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This thread is BS.  You're all getting trolled.  Nuff said.
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AvidVisionary
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2011, 08:49:01 PM »
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I am reading. Because the question I have in mind I have not yet come across the answer should not allow you to scoff me.
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gazwas
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« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2011, 03:42:39 AM »
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Because the question I have in mind I have not yet come across the answer should not allow you to scoff me.

The thing is we don't know the answer either if we have no idea of the question in your head.

The evidence (your cat picture) points to you either being a troll or with a new photographer with very little photographic knowledge asking question about gear you know even less about. It has been suggested you do some research and try and find answers to your questions but you prefer to continue along the same vain then complain when people pull you up on this.

Just looking at your last two posts it seems more your looking for an argument rather than photographic help.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 03:45:05 AM by gazwas » Logged

trying to think of something meaningful........ Err?
AvidVisionary
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« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2011, 04:03:15 AM »
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You are pulling me towards an argument and when I defend myself you say things about me that are untrue. You don't know me or know anything about me yet you just sit there behind the screen say "search for it". I have searched and did not get an answer. I ask and get told to search for it.

Since you have decided to "help" by commenting, could you please kindly show me how to search for details on how to operate a MF camera since I cannot yet hold one on my hands. I would like to practice in theory first.
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2011, 05:19:06 AM »
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22guide+to+medium+format%22

First link which will appear. Tough, wasn't it..
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AvidVisionary
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« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2011, 05:41:36 AM »
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I looked for "mamiya tutorials" "hasselblad tutorials" "phase one" tutorials and all that came up was how to use the software. There are no MF tutorials like DSLR on the net. The theory of MF is there but the tutorials and lessons I have not encountered yet.


Thanks for the link.
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gazwas
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2011, 05:59:43 AM »
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Three different formats but all the work horses of the pre digital world and some still used by some digital photographers currently.

Mamiya RZ67

http://www.pdfcameramanuals.org/mamiya/mamiya_rz67/mamiya_rz67.htm

Mamiya 645

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_645_af_d/mamiya_645_af_d.htm

Hasselblad 503CX

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/hasselblad/hasselblad_503cx/hasselblad_503cx.htm

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trying to think of something meaningful........ Err?
AvidVisionary
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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2011, 06:07:37 AM »
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YES!! That's exactly what I have been searching for.

Thank you so much.
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bcooter
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« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2011, 10:46:21 AM »
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Only AV knows his/her intentions, but it should be understood that his/her questions are valid.

When I started shooting digital capture I thought I was behind the curve, then found in my world I was ahead of the curve but getting information, real unbiased information on anything was difficult.

From the RG forums to this venue, getting monitor calibrations came with answers based on agendas of specialists, representing products, or specialists representing products and their own custom workshops.

Same with printing, converting rgb to cmyk, profiling cameras, buying cameras, using cameras, the list was endless.

Not to paint everyone with the same brush, because some people and information were spot on, but I remember the huge amount of disinformation I received from pre press houses, digital gurus, camera sellers, seminar givers, peripheral sellers, etc.etc. to the point it made your head want to blow.

Just the simple act of converting an rgb file to a cmyk image would open up a 400 reply post that had so many agendas, it would eventually be locked.  

Cameras were another story.  Only one group (I think head by the digital tech Von Thomas) compared the medium format cameras of the day in one room on a real shoot and only with Von's insistence was a Canon allowed in the testing.

As well meaning as this test was, it still focused on just on small scenario in studio and didn't go into a lot of real world use and back end workflow.

Since that time I've yet to see anything close to that comparison and today is a much different time as a few of the players have consolidated, one (Sinar) has seemed to drop off the map (at least in the U.S.), two new all in one medium format cameras have been introduced, (the leica and the Pentax) both on opposite ends of the price scale and today there is more talk about video and motion than there is more megapixels, so though things are different they are just as complicated.

Sometimes I think we forget that we all stood in the same spot as AV wanting to learn, not make a drastic purchase mistake and of course not go down the wrong learning path.

Since real non biased information is difficult to come by, the only real answer form Mr. AV is to do the tests him/herself in the genre he/she works.  This can be expensive and time consuming and is probably the reason most people base their buying decisions on taking a few quick snaps in some dealers showroom.  

There is just very few dealers and very few ways to test pentax, leica, Hasselblad, leaf/Phase a Nikon D3x and a 5d2  from one source.  

Let's be honest  AV's questions are valid and who wouldn't like to have the opportunity to test all this equipment together and draw some kind of conclusion?

IMO

BC


« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 11:38:04 PM by bcooter » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2011, 12:46:40 PM »
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I imagine that for anybody starting from scratch, the formats are meaningless. The basics of photography are identical over all formats. The only differences derive from things such as camera movements etc. which are certainly not important requirements for any novice.

What is important to any neophyte is the understanding of one body and lens. Crack using that and you have the understanding to use anything else, because all you are doing is changing the area you cover with your camera. Concepts such as depth of field, perspective and so forth do change, but they are immediately obvious.

Advice? Buy the best camera and standard lens you can afford and go shoot. Stop reading about other equipment; start learning how to use what you have got.

Rob C
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2011, 09:54:09 PM »
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AV -

I might also recommend to get off the internet. Take a stroll to the local public library. Check out the photography section. There will likely be older, more fundamental camera resources there that are easy to pick up on than you'll find at a glance of photography sites on the internet. And this is probably just what you need to get you started. If you don't know the questions to ask, if you don't know why a 40mm lens is considered wide on a medium format camera, then you have some gaps that are hindering you and which could be filled by books like those.

Grab 2 or 3, take an afternoon off, and you may find your sea legs by the end of the day.


Best of luck.


Steve Hendrix
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Steve Hendrix
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2011, 02:21:04 AM »
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$$$$$$
Could you possible explain to me the difference between the two?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2011, 02:37:11 AM »
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Frank is absolutely right, and he absolutely knows what he talks about.

Also, I would not try MF for film. I happen to have an MF-Film kit (Pentax 67 with 5 lenses) but I never use it. My full frame DSLR always wins, at least when tested with slide film. http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/16-pentax67velvia-vs-sony-alpha-900

That said there is also an opposite view: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=20970

If you have a very good drum scan operator and make very few images you may get excellent results from MF film

So my advice would be:

- Be happy with your Canon 5DII and learn to use it optimally
- Invest your money on better lenses
- Once you feel the need a larger format try to set up so you can test equipment under realistic conditions.
- You may also consider taking part in a PODAS workshop. They are expensive but you can shoot Phase One's top gear with excellent tutors.

Best regards
Erik


You don't need to LEARN MF.
If you know how to shoot there really is no difference between a P&S, DSLR, MF camera.
Just measure the light, set the settings, look through the little hole (or big hole) and press the shutter.

BUT.... I have to add.
When you ask a question like this I think it's not yet time to move to MF.
First master the 5D until it doesn't fit your needs anymore, when you hit that barrier where you feel you REALLY REALLY need something better, than it's time to upgrade, but by that time you already know 99% how to shoot a MF camera.

And no I don't mean that in a wrong way, just trying to put you on track.
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AvidVisionary
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« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2011, 03:03:00 AM »
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I am definitely going to be looking into the PODAS workshop. Also, the British library has books on MF which I can read for free.
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jn
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« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2011, 04:10:58 AM »
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Recently, I scanned 6X9 negative color film with the ancestor of this scanner (Epson 3200 photo). Using 3200 dpi, I obtain approximatively 6O MPixel files that I have printed in  A3+. After having process to noise and sharpness treatement on Photoshop CS3, the color and the sharpness of the results satisfy me (however I am not a professional) .

My question is the following : for how long time can we buy such films, and how many long the laboratories may process them ? I am french, and I have no any information concerning the problem?

In fact, I made used of a Silvestri T30 camera (with a Schneider 38mm lense), that I have lose, due to a thieft. Presently, I am examing whether it is appropriate to buy a new film camera, since I have no budget to buy a digital MF camera.

Please, excuse me for my so bad practice of english language.
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2011, 04:51:36 AM »
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@JN,
Upconvert a digital file and you can get 10.000MP's if you want.
Print it on A2 and it's awesome....

Don't mean to bash MF, heck I love it PLUS I love film.
But scanning to 60MP is just a number, when you compare the same shot with a 22MP back I found that with my scanner (epson v700 with better scanning tranny) I got app 12-14MP of REAL comparable resolution.
Someone offered me to scan it with a high end scanner and that came close to 16-18MP but none beat my Aptus22 at that moment.

A3+ is no problem at all, even an 8MP file will look great on that size.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2011, 05:16:26 AM »
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Yes, I agree with Frank.

Film availability is guarantee at least for enough years, there is a market (and a slightly growing market).

To answer to JN, you can get a gear that is easily compatible with both so you will never run out of gazoline if film disappear from the stores (will not happen tomorrow anyway).


I've seen many enormous digital printings very well aceived made by 20MP cameras, but again there are tricks that craftmen knows. This is not suitable for a photographer on his own, you can't get that with a home studio and your 90 or 120 cm Epson plotter, although a lot is possible.  

I saw Rio Branco's (http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP=XSpecific_MAG.PhotographerDetail_VPage&l1=0&pid=2K7O3R13Q5JC&nm=Miguel%20Rio%20Branco) 2, 3 meters prints done from film and they where stunning. The very big difference I see on big sizes are in the highlights. Digital highlights when printing at those sizes and especially the harsh light tend for my taste to be "dirty" on the edges. The post-prod stage is really key and it's long. No posibility to eradicate that automaticaly.
At those sizes I only trust a pro that does that on a daily basis. It's a bit like sound in video, we can't do and know all. I'm not a pro printer and don't want to be. Machines are super sensitives to humidity, temp, dust, the vaccum system that fixes support are fragile etc...

If the printing size is tiny, like A3, you can't get wrong on your own with almost whatever, as Frank pointed.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 10:18:46 PM by fredjeang » Logged
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