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Author Topic: H4D40 and P40+  (Read 14255 times)
JV
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« on: March 18, 2011, 04:21:41 PM »
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Some thoughts from Nick-T on the H4D40 and the P40+:
http://www.nick-t.com/blog/2011/03/h4d40-vs-p40/
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gazwas
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 06:30:45 PM »
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Kind of a limited point of view Huh

The Hasselblad is better because it shoots at 800 iso is a pathetic conclusion and I would argue both have very clear negatives and positives. Neither wipes the floor with the other and a hybrid of both would be the natural winner. However, as this camera does not exist the choice boils down to what features best suit your regular shooting requirements and no review/personal blog can answer that. 
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donaldt
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 10:33:03 PM »
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the more significant difference is the different size of CCD (as far as I remember the Hass is 1.1x crop and the P40 is 1.3x)
I am a believer of bigger is better
and when comparing these 2 system I think more importantly is if you want focal plane shutter or lens shutter

this review is indeed very rough
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yaya
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 03:06:42 AM »
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the more significant difference is the different size of CCD (as far as I remember the Hass is 1.1x crop and the P40 is 1.3x)
I am a believer of bigger is better
and when comparing these 2 system I think more importantly is if you want focal plane shutter or lens shutter

this review is indeed very rough

Both chips are the same size but from different manufacturers

Couple of notes re lenses: there are 16 in the current Phase/ Mamiya range with more coming. One can also choose to use Hasselblad V lenses (including F/FE), Pentax 67 lenses (via adapter), older Mamiya 645 lenses or even large format lenses.
Most Zeiss lenses (V series and Contax) and HC lenses have factory profiles in C1 BTW, to correct for distortion and chromatic aberration.
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design_freak
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 08:01:03 AM »
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heheh ;-)
Hasselblad at all is better. Anyone who has held both cameras in hand, knows what I say. Hasselblad is the best-designed  mediumformat camera which produced so far. Phase One body is very poor ergonomics, poorly balanced, the grip is too short (sticks in hand), by fitting the V-grip can work, but unfortunately it is not well designed, bad choice of wheels are arranged, after an hour of work is being felt pain. All the time you have to use two batteries, one for the body, one for DB. Also circulated a myth that the Phase One camera is smaller, lighter and has better optics. I strongly invite you to test, I use both systems and I know what I say. In the case of the Hasselblad can talk about your system, in the case of Phase One did not. Still a lot of work on the Phase One camera system.
Sorry that I focused on the camera, but the many myths that must be overturned.
Returning to the differences between the P40 + and H4D40. AF System: Hasselblad has a much faster and more accurate autofocus (White LED), the system works perfectly True Focus (3-point autofocus system Phase One looks at it as an archaism.) Hasselblad has a range of 11 lenses
But the most important argument is the image quality. H4D40 is according to me the best camera, which was developed over the last few years. Color reproduction is excellent, the quality of images above 200ISO is unbeatable for Phase One. You could say that it is an entirely different league. Of course, "Sensor Plus" gives better results, but 10Mpix this is not what is expected for the hardware for the money. I strongly urge everyone to test and compare.

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EricWHiss
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 11:21:01 AM »
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A very brief comparison and hard to draw any conclusions from.  I just compared the CFii-39MS vs Aptus 12 and tested DR, color, high iso, DOF differences, diffraction and even with all that data, the only easy thing to conclude is that the 654DF camera body isn't the equal of other alternatives.   It's shutter lag, slow sync speed, and viewfinder really hurt.  You push the button the viewfinder goes dark for an eternity while you hope your subject isn't moving then finally you hear the thing working. Then you look at the files - rats! Another blurry shot thanks to the dim finder, forever shutter lag and the 1/125 shutter sync (yes its that bad - even at 1/125 I had some dark banding from the shutter on the side of the frame occasionally).  In the match up between the H4D-40 and the p40+,  the differences in the camera bodies alone finishes the comparison.  Put the p40+ on a H4D or Hy6 and then you'd have a real competition.
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gazwas
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 11:36:18 AM »
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I'm sure many will agree (Phase One Owners) that the AF and DF are very poor relations to the H3/4 Cameras. However it has been publicly announced by the CEO of Phase that they are developing a totally NEW camera platform and it it has any relation to other recent Phase One developments it will be amazing.

Camera aside, the main point for shooting Phase One is that many of the Blads amazing features are locked up in the H4 body. Take the camera body away and the Phase backs make so much more sense. My main reason for going down the Phase route though is how slow Hasselblad is at bringing new stuff to market or fixing existing stuff. The H4D60 is an embarrassment and is only just arriving with customers who ordered over 12/18 months ago, meanwhile Phase have moved the goal poasts again with the IQ180. Not to mention the 60's features that are still being fixed/enabled via firmware. And don't get me started on how tech camera friendly the 60 will be with its new external battery that is still in development.
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donaldt
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 11:41:59 AM »
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is there any official announcements about the HCD 28mm working on the H4D60 yet?
it wasnt designed to(though I am sure it does work), does that mean the 60 back just dont get any Ultra Wide?

I used to use Mamiya and I have to agree, other the being super heavy, the Hass beat the Mamiya Camera in each and every aspects
I do wish them come up with a DSLR type camera with larger than 44x33mm CCD, like a Pentax 645D but with true 645 size CCD


I'm sure many will agree (Phase One Owners) that the AF and DF are very poor relations to the H3/4 Cameras. However it has been publicly announced by the CEO of Phase that they are developing a totally NEW camera platform and it it has any relation to other recent Phase One developments it will be amazing.

Camera aside, the main point for shooting Phase One is that many of the Blads amazing features are locked up in the H4 body. Take the camera body away and the Phase backs make so much more sense. My main reason for going down the Phase route though is how slow Hasselblad is at bringing new stuff to market or fixing existing stuff. The H4D60 is an embarrassment and is only just arriving with customers who ordered over 12/18 months ago, meanwhile Phase have moved the goal poasts again with the IQ180. Not to mention the 60's features that are still being fixed/enabled via firmware. And don't get me started on how tech camera friendly the 60 will be with its new external battery that is still in development.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 01:34:13 PM »
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What do you mean? The HCD 28 works fine on the H4D60. I don't need any official statement, I just put one on my H4D60 and see that it works. Even at full rez. it is very well usable. Cropped it will give you the same angle of view as on the 50, uncropped you even get more of a wide-angle!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 01:59:52 PM by Dustbak » Logged
design_freak
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 03:10:26 PM »
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Interesting approach to the topic. The creation of an entirely new platform will take another 2 years. Unfortunately, this time we can only talk about Digital Backs of the mark Phaseone. Loading a series of "IQ" USB 3.0 was stupid. It was known that Apple will introduce Light Peak. Do you think that the simple replacement of the hardware firmawe a bad trait? This indicates that the entire structure has been very well thought out so as to be able to add new functionality. Problems with the production were associated with the fall of companies that produced components. Currently there are no problems with the acquisition H4D60. Please pray that the events in Japan have not caused problems in production. Unfortunately, Schnider and Hasselblad lenses are manufactured in Japan, like so many components that can be found in the equipment in this segment. So far no problems with availability, but this situation may change. So this situation can happen to any company.
As for the external battery H4D60, I use an external battery that I use to power my laptop for outgoing sessions. But as you have a battery with an inscription Hasselblad, what you have to wait. Just as the new lenses to the system Phaseone.

Quote
I'm sure many will agree (Phase One Owners) that the AF and DF are very poor relations to the H3/4 Cameras. However it has been publicly announced by the CEO of Phase that they are developing a totally NEW camera platform and it it has any relation to other recent Phase One developments it will be amazing.

Camera aside, the main point for shooting Phase One is that many of the Blads amazing features are locked up in the H4 body. Take the camera body away and the Phase backs make so much more sense. My main reason for going down the Phase route though is how slow Hasselblad is at bringing new stuff to market or fixing existing stuff. The H4D60 is an embarrassment and is only just arriving with customers who ordered over 12/18 months ago, meanwhile Phase have moved the goal poasts again with the IQ180. Not to mention the 60's features that are still being fixed/enabled via firmware. And don't get me started on how tech camera friendly the 60 will be with its new external battery that is still in development.

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henrikfoto
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 03:19:19 PM »
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A very brief comparison and hard to draw any conclusions from.  I just compared the CFii-39MS vs Aptus 12 and tested DR, color, high iso, DOF differences, diffraction and even with all that data, the only easy thing to conclude is that the 654DF camera body isn't the equal of other alternatives.   It's shutter lag, slow sync speed, and viewfinder really hurt.  You push the button the viewfinder goes dark for an eternity while you hope your subject isn't moving then finally you hear the thing working. Then you look at the files - rats! Another blurry shot thanks to the dim finder, forever shutter lag and the 1/125 shutter sync (yes its that bad - even at 1/125 I had some dark banding from the shutter on the side of the frame occasionally).  In the match up between the H4D-40 and the p40+,  the differences in the camera bodies alone finishes the comparison.  Put the p40+ on a H4D or Hy6 and then you'd have a real competition.

Hm . . I am just about to be talked into moving from H2 and Phase back to an all Phase solution with the new Schneider lenses.
Is that a change for the worse?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 03:49:24 PM by henrikfoto » Logged
KLaban
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 05:22:38 PM »
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Hm . . I am just about to be talked into moving from H2 and Phase back to an all Phase solution with the new Schneider lenses.
Is that a change for the worse?

Perhaps being talked into anything is a change for the worse?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 05:24:11 PM by KLaban » Logged

henrikfoto
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 05:34:23 PM »
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Yes, that was a bit wrong maybe Wink.
I am just thinking the H-system is closed and it might be time to move
to another platform. I like the Phase one backs best.

What are the choises then?
Cantax old and slow.
H2...
Phase one...
503 digital...

Does really Phase one have a worse af than Hasselblad?
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donaldt
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2011, 09:18:47 PM »
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the designed image coverage for the HCD lenses were for the 1.1x crop CCD, at 49x37mm
it was not designed for the true 645 therefore they are called HCD not HC
if not I think they would have claimed the HCD28mm to be the widest 645 lens ever produced


What do you mean? The HCD 28 works fine on the H4D60. I don't need any official statement, I just put one on my H4D60 and see that it works. Even at full rez. it is very well usable. Cropped it will give you the same angle of view as on the 50, uncropped you even get more of a wide-angle!
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 08:34:40 AM »
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the designed image coverage for the HCD lenses were for the 1.1x crop CCD, at 49x37mm
it was not designed for the true 645 therefore they are called HCD not HC
if not I think they would have claimed the HCD28mm to be the widest 645 lens ever produced

They wouldn't be able to make such a statement anyway given that there is a Phase One 28mm rectilinear lens which covers 645 and a Mamiya 24mm fisheye lens.

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Dustbak
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2011, 09:13:54 AM »
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the designed image coverage for the HCD lenses were for the 1.1x crop CCD, at 49x37mm
it was not designed for the true 645 therefore they are called HCD not HC
if not I think they would have claimed the HCD28mm to be the widest 645 lens ever produced



I know but I get tired of people telling others you cannot use the HCD lenses on the H4D60. BTW, the lenses are called HCD where the D stands for digital and not particularly the 49x37 format (even though that was the largest sensor format available at that time and it is designed with that being the maximum format), ie. the lenses cannot be used on film H bodies (with the exception of the H2F + CF back).

« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 10:58:02 AM by Dustbak » Logged
Quentin
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2011, 11:33:01 AM »
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Interesting though that the redesigned 50mm HC lens is not an HCD50 but an HC50 MkII.  No "D" in the name and no crop factror for the H4D-60. I assume that when the 28mm HCD was designed. Hassy assumed its coverage would be sufficient for any future Hasselblad digital back.  They could not have anticipated the H4D-60 otherwise they would surely have designed the 28mm with a slightly larger image circle.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2011, 11:52:51 AM »
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I think you might be hitting the nail on the head there.
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lance_schad
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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2011, 12:25:46 PM »
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design_freak,

I don't think utilizing USB 2/3 connectivity was a bad move. USB 3 is the volume leader, thanks to its backwards compatibility with 1 billion+ USB 2.0 ports.

There are some very large markets that a more PC based than Apple. USB has been a standard transfer technology for many years and has a proven track record and USB 3 being the next generation with backwards compatibility.

At least Phase One is looking at offering alternatives if in fact Firewire goes away. I haven't seen any other manufacturer build multiple interfaces into their backs.

It has been announced Apple has a 1 to 1.5 year exclusive on Lightpeak/Thunderbolt, don't you think that will have some effect on peripheral manufacturers adopting it over USB 3 since there are many more PC's out there in the world?

Steve Jobs is not always correct...


L
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« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2011, 01:22:00 PM »
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Interesting though that the redesigned 50mm HC lens is not an HCD50 but an HC50 MkII.  No "D" in the name and no crop factror for the H4D-60. I assume that when the 28mm HCD was designed. Hassy assumed its coverage would be sufficient for any future Hasselblad digital back.  They could not have anticipated the H4D-60 otherwise they would surely have designed the 28mm with a slightly larger image circle.
I cannot understand why they did the 28 and the 35-90 HCD
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