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Author Topic: "pigment ink on paper" vs ?  (Read 6180 times)
Robcat
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« on: March 19, 2011, 02:49:59 PM »
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I'm in the 3rd day of a 4 day show in New York in which my prints were labeled "pigment ink on paper" (or canvas as the case may be). This seemed to be a reasonable description to me (and many of you on other LuLa topic posts) and certainly superior to the hideous "Giclee" or the questionable "archival something." However, I must've had to explain this terminology hundreds of times. Of course it's nice that I've had hundreds looking and asking questions  Smiley, but the terminology doesn't seem to be communicating well. What are people's experiences with terms that are perhaps clearer?
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feppe
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 03:04:32 PM »
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Here
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Robcat
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 03:50:11 PM »
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That's the thread from which I gleaned the "pigment ink..." construction in the first place. I agree with the posters in that thread that something like it is the most technically accurate, but it sure is not communicating well with the public (just explained it 4 more times since my OP.
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neile
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 04:06:46 PM »
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I'm curious why people are asking. I wonder if they also ask when they see "gelatin silver" on a traditional B&W print?

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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 06:07:23 PM »
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this is all my opinion, but I find Giclee to be both totally pretentious and entirely un-helpful for my clients. ( I largely do portraiture). I say "museum print" and "print on cotton rag" interchangeably with no questions.
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Schewe
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 06:13:58 PM »
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However, I must've had to explain this terminology hundreds of times. Of course it's nice that I've had hundreds looking and asking questions, but the terminology doesn't seem to be communicating well.

Well, I would suggest that it's in your (and the gallery's) best interest to have an info sheet that explains the technology behind the prints. I would try to avoid typical hype and marketing-speak and simply explain the basics. Something along "About the Prints" and explain, in general terms, how the images were prepared and printed. You can talk a bit about the technology but most people won't really care that much beyond a basic understanding of what they are looking at and what it may mean to them. Easier to prepare an info sheet that repeating the same explanation over and over...
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chez
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 06:26:59 PM »
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Well, what would you expect? To the layman what does pigment ink mean? Like it or not, giclee is becoming a more understood term everyday. Technically, it might mean crap, but who sells their art on the scientifically correct development process?
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PeterAit
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 06:38:47 PM »
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Inkjet print.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 06:48:40 PM »
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I'm in the 3rd day of a 4 day show in New York in which my prints were labeled "pigment ink on paper" (or canvas as the case may be). This seemed to be a reasonable description to me (and many of you on other LuLa topic posts) and certainly superior to the hideous "Giclee" or the questionable "archival something." However, I must've had to explain this terminology hundreds of times. Of course it's nice that I've had hundreds looking and asking questions  Smiley, but the terminology doesn't seem to be communicating well. What are people's experiences with terms that are perhaps clearer?

That's great! You've caught their attention, and are given an opportunity to make personal contact. Now it's up to you to turn the opportunity into sales (assuming that's your goal).

Bart
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feppe
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 06:53:10 PM »
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Well, what would you expect? To the layman what does pigment ink mean? Like it or not, giclee is becoming a more understood term everyday. Technically, it might mean crap, but who sells their art on the scientifically correct development process?

A layman understands that "giclee" means "to ejaculate" in French. And that it is pretentious.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 07:06:59 PM »
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A layman understands that "giclee" means "to ejaculate" in French. And that it is pretentious.

A French-speaking layman, may I add. And yes, it does sound pretentious to all others (i.e., non-French speaking).
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 07:10:17 PM »
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Inkjet print.

That sounds exactly as the printer they already have in their home or office... not a good selling point.
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chez
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 09:03:12 PM »
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That sounds exactly as the printer they already have in their home or office... not a good selling point.

Exactly. Trying to use a scientifically correct term in describing your print process will just make every potential customer's eyes gloss over.

Yeh, I use pigmented ink laid down onto the finest multi layered Baryta paper.

 Potential customer...yeh what ever.

Like it or not, the term giclee is starting to be equated with quality prints. 
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Sven W
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« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 10:57:04 AM »
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The origin construction of the term "Giclee" comes, as you probably all know, from Jack Duganne at Nash Editions. In the early 90's.
I read an interview with Mac Holbert from Nash Editions that they nowadays prefer the term "pigment print (on acid free cotton rag)"
But I agree with some posts above, that from a pedagogical point view, it doesn't say much for layman. And sometimes in a discussion, I can say that it is not a painting, a drawing or a sculpture. It's simply "a photograph".  Wink
/Sven
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framah
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 11:22:38 AM »
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Kleenex
Xerox
Giclee

These have all become generic terms that people use. Everyone seems to know what you mean when you say you are going to Xerox something or please hand me a Kleenex.

When someone comes into my store and they see the 9900, they usually ask "Does that make those Giclees?"  They have heard the word enough to connect it to printing and then I have the opportunity to give them a bit more info about the process.
A paper to hand out with more info on the process is always good for our business.

Maybe when a print is labeled, Pigment ink on paper you can add  Giclee in parentheses. This way people can make the connection.

Pretty much no one knows that Giclee means "to ejaculate" in French.   Only those who speak French and those of us who are gicleeing all over the paper. Shocked
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Robcat
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2011, 11:26:08 AM »
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Quote
The origin construction of the term "Giclee" comes, as you probably all know, from Jack Duganne at Nash Editions. In the early 90's.
I read an interview with Mac Holbert from Nash Editions that they nowadays prefer the term "pigment print (on acid free cotton rag)"
But I agree with some posts above, that from a pedagogical point view, it doesn't say much for layman. And sometimes in a discussion, I can say that it is not a painting, a drawing or a sculpture. It's simply "a photograph".  
I like "photograph." Perhaps with the addition "printed on..."  Agree also with having a nice sheet describing the technique in more detail.
A few minutes ago someone saw the "pigment ink on canvas" and assumed I was brushing on a special ink.
But don't get me wrong, I'm happy for any excuse to talk to folks.
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Sven W
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2011, 03:29:23 PM »
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But do you never has to explain what a Giclee is??
That it is (was) a method and not a technique. I.e. "to precisely reproduce an art work, digitize it, and then print it as
close to the original as possible."
And that is not what is in front of OP's audience.

/Sven

Kleenex
Xerox
Giclee

These have all become generic terms that people use. Everyone seems to know what you mean when you say you are going to Xerox something or please hand me a Kleenex.

When someone comes into my store and they see the 9900, they usually ask "Does that make those Giclees?"  They have heard the word enough to connect it to printing and then I have the opportunity to give them a bit more info about the process.
A paper to hand out with more info on the process is always good for our business.

Maybe when a print is labeled, Pigment ink on paper you can add  Giclee in parentheses. This way people can make the connection.

Pretty much no one knows that Giclee means "to ejaculate" in French.   Only those who speak French and those of us who are gicleeing all over the paper. Shocked
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2011, 03:50:44 PM »
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But do you never has to explain what a Giclee is??
That it is (was) a method and not a technique. I.e. "to precisely reproduce an art work, digitize it, and then print it as
close to the original as possible.
"
...

According to what source or dictionary!?
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Slobodan

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Sven W
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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2011, 04:15:31 PM »
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That was stated by the IAFADP to achieve an Giclee approval.

Wikipedia:
"Artists generally use giclée inkjet printing to make reproductions of their original two-dimensional artwork....."
On the web:
"We offer full service digital fine art Giclee printing to artists who need to create gallery-ready reproductions of original artwork..."
"Exact reproductions on artist's canvas (giclees) so carefully made that even an expert could be fooled."  Cheesy
Et al

/Sven
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2011, 04:17:59 PM »
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Then there is this website that says "...Prints made with coated substrates are not considered true digital pigment prints."  Go figure.
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