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Author Topic: Profile mismatch in Flexcolor?  (Read 14870 times)
drcahmss
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« on: March 22, 2011, 08:33:05 AM »
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Anyone out there help? We are scanning negatives using Flextight scanners (X5 and 949) and in the past few months have been experiencing colour mismatch when bringing the scans through into Photoshop CS5 (same thing happened in CS4). We are aware that the colours won't match 100% but for some reason they have become very 'warm'. We have upgraded the software to Flexcolor 4.8.8 but to no avail. We have made sure the colour settings are as they should be i.e. Adobe1998 and all other settings are ok. We have been in discussion with Hasselblad but I think they are running out of ideas too. For info we are pc based (XP Pro) and scan as tiff and not 3f.  We have also tried scanning on a Mac and get the same mismatch. If anyone has any ideas we'd love to hear them......

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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 08:49:00 AM »
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I don't know the Flextight software so I can't offer any help on that aspect of it, but I do a lot of colour negative scanning, mainly using a Nikon Super Coolscan 5000ED and sometimes (mainly for testing purposes) a Plustek 7600iAi or an Epson V750 Pro, all with SilverFast Ai Studio and I don't have this problem - the images open in Photoshop looking very close to how they appear in the SilverFast scan preview. I mention this just to make the point that regardless of the fact one is scanning negatives, this does not necessarily have a bearing on the problem you face. I assume you've checked with Hasselblad whether they've changed the negative profiles (which you may have "upgraded" to) some time before you starting seeing this problem.

The most I can do is recommend on how you go about the diagnostics. The place to start would be with an assessment of what changed in respect of colour management in the scanning software, Photoshop software and your computer operating system's colour management modules between the time you last had good results and the time you started to get unsatisfactory results with the same process .
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 09:25:09 AM »
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So you are saying previews in FlexColor and the resulting scan in Photoshop don’t match right? Off hand, how are you calibrating the display? Could you be using version 4 ICC profiles which might be affecting the preview in FlexColor?

I suspect its FlexColor because Photoshop should be doing the previews correctly. If you open the tagged scan in other ICC aware app’s do they match Photoshop (and mismatch FC?). That would lead me to look at the scanning software. Note that you really need to view both previews at 100% if possible and at the same scale (zoomed to match size).
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Andrew Rodney
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drcahmss
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 10:25:24 AM »
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Thanks for your reply digitaldog.
I have never heard of version 4 ICC profiles? I presume CS5 is using version4 profiles, but I dont know? But surely Adobe RGB 1998 will be the same in any version of ICC profiles?
What is the difference between older ICC profiles and the newer version 4?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 11:15:19 AM »
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The version 4 profiles I speak of are those for your display. What software are you using to profile it? Check the preferences to make sure its not building V4 profiles. Maybe even try building a Matrix profile if set to LUT (or vise versa), assuming the software gives these options.
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Andrew Rodney
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drcahmss
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 11:27:30 AM »
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I am using a EIZO Coloredge CG211, and an eye1 with the Eizo ColourNavigator software for calibration of the monitor.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 11:56:54 AM »
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I am using a EIZO Coloredge CG211, and an eye1 with the Eizo ColourNavigator software for calibration of the monitor.

Check the preferences.
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 01:45:01 PM »
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Andrew, why would (or perhaps better - how could) the display profile affect differences in image appearance, seen on the same display, between a Flextight image and a Photoshop image?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 01:45:55 PM »
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Some ICC aware applications barf (that’s the technical term <g>) on V4 profiles. Its only a guess but worth a try. Otherwise, its some preview bug in the Imacon software (assuming its vastly different from Photoshop).
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 01:55:56 PM »
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Got it, thanks. Would you say these days it's generally safer, and one isn't losing much, sticking with v2 profiles for both display and printer?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2011, 01:56:46 PM »
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Got it, thanks. Would you say these days it's generally safer, and one isn't losing much, sticking with v2 profiles for both display and printer?

Without question. V4 profiles are not ready for prime time just yet.
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2011, 02:02:54 PM »
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Thanks Andrew.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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drcahmss
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2011, 03:52:59 PM »
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Mark may have got it but I don't think I do!
As far as I am aware I am only using v2 profiles. But how can I tell?
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drcahmss
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2011, 04:23:27 PM »
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Please bear in mind that this mismatch is happening on Mac as well as PC, and with the latest version of the Flexcolor software.
I would say that the only common thing between the PC and Mac is that we are viewing the images and scan previews on the same make of monitor.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2011, 04:34:10 PM »
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Please bear in mind that this mismatch is happening on Mac as well as PC, and with the latest version of the Flexcolor software.
I would say that the only common thing between the PC and Mac is that we are viewing the images and scan previews on the same make of monitor.

Could you please go back to the second paragraph of reply #1 (mine) and tell us what changed between the time these previews were coherent and the time they stopped being coherent. If anything did change, that may be the vital clue into the cause of the problem. For example, did you up-grade the version of Flextight and nothing else changed? If so, that may be the root of the problem.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
drcahmss
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2011, 03:25:00 AM »
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Unfortunately this change happened about 10 months ago and we cannot remember what changes took place to cause this. We have been working round the problem by making corrections in Photoshop since then. I remember spending the best part of two days trying to sort this out at the time, but with no success. Over the past couple of weeks myself and others have revisited the problem and again spent lots of time trying to sort this out.
As I said we have been in touch with Hasselblad over many months about the problem. They have recently serviced our scanners and cannot replicate the problem or their systems. They have however been very helpful in suggesting various things to try but none have been successful. Hence my post here.
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jc1
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2011, 05:31:22 AM »
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If your conversion engine is set to Microsoft (ICM), try setting it to Adobe (ACE).

I observed that the ICM engine may not handle the conversion correctly when  Absolute colorimetric was selected under ICM, resulting in very "warmed" image after conversion.

When conversion engine is set to Microsoft (ICM) and with Absolute colorimetric intent
- Assigned profile generated with PM5 or MP, converted to ProPhoto: normal
- Assigned profile generated with PM5 or MP, converted to aRGB or sRGB: warmed & high delta E.

My experience is limited to reflective scan only, with CS4/xp3 and with Kodak Q-60 IT8 reflective target.

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drcahmss
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2011, 07:56:47 AM »
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Thanks jc1
Can you tell me exactly how I would go about changing from Microsoft (ICM) to Adobe (ACE).
I am using XP Pro on a PC.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2011, 08:05:08 AM »
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Thanks jc1
Can you tell me exactly how I would go about changing from Microsoft (ICM) to Adobe (ACE).
I am using XP Pro on a PC.

I'm not jc1, but anyhow:

Photoshop>Edit>Color Settings>Conversion Options>Engine. At this point use the drop-down menu to select Adobe (ACE).
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
drcahmss
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2011, 08:35:22 AM »
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I have just checked my settings and I am using Adobe (ACE).
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