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Author Topic: Profile mismatch in Flexcolor?  (Read 13952 times)
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2011, 08:42:32 AM »
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Without question. V4 profiles are not ready for prime time just yet.

Andrew, further on this, and perhaps a bit OT - but anyhow - could you please explain in what ways V4 profiles are not ready for prime time? This is a matter of obvious concern because we are always given a choice in creating profiles (display or printer) whether we want them as V2 or V4. I believe all of my custom profiles are V4 and I don't seem to have a problem, so either I'm not seeing something, or possibly it affects people with set-ups or requirements different from mine. A bit of elaboration of the currently outstanding issues with V4 would be helpful.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2011, 09:08:07 AM »
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Andrew, further on this, and perhaps a bit OT - but anyhow - could you please explain in what ways V4 profiles are not ready for prime time?

Most built today are V2 in structure, there isn’t a defined PRMG for their use in both sets of profiles, many software products barf on them (the old scum dot issue for output profiles, improper preview for display profiles). IOW, few if any app’s take advantage of the V4 structure when the profile is built fully for V4 and worse, many applications produce unacceptable results using them.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2011, 09:16:23 AM »
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When you say there isn't a defined PRMG, not clear what you mean, as the ICC appears to me to say there is:http://www.color.org/v4_prmg.xalter. Or do you mean that certain applications aren't necessarily using it properly? If the latter, would you include Photoshop, Lightroom, BasicColor 4 and our various profiling kits such as MP, PMP, Pulse Elite, ColorMunki as "barfing" at V4?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2011, 09:19:47 AM »
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Both profiles have to be written to use the PRMG for one. Even if you found say a V4 ProPhoto RGB profile with the PRMG tag, how about all your output profiles? Neither PMP nor PROFILER have the PRMG tags, but I can’t speak for all app’s that build output profiles.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2011, 09:26:31 AM »
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OK, so I guess this means if I hit on a combo of profiles that works, just keep using it. All one can do is play back and forth between V2 and V4 and see which set provides the most reliable screen to print matching in my working environment. Raises an interesting issue with respect to scanner profiles! Given that scanning film has become kind of a niche, one wonders to what extent scanner profiling is V4 aware, or if they are all on V2, and if one is using v2 for the scanner but V4 for the display and the printer, could one be getting disconnects because of this inconsistency?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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drcahmss
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« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2011, 03:44:01 PM »
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I seem to have started a real discussion here about different profile versions.
Which is very interesting, and I hope to read more and learn more.
But back to my annoying problem of preview and resultant scan not matching.
I have now managed to get the preview and the scan to match by using a Mac laptop.
I have also managed to get the preview and scan to match by using a different PC (but same make and model) with the identical software versions loaded, and using identical icc profiles for colour conversion.  i.e. as far as I am aware there is no difference in the software between the two PC's!
Just one will scan correctly the other will not!
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jc1
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« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2011, 07:46:52 PM »
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I have now managed to get the preview and the scan to match by using a Mac laptop.
I have also managed to get the preview and scan to match by using a different PC (but same make and model) with the identical software versions loaded, and using identical icc profiles for colour conversion.  i.e. as far as I am aware there is no difference in the software between the two PC's!

Intent (Absolute or Relative Colorimetric) may be set differently.
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drcahmss
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« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2011, 06:44:14 AM »
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Both are on the same rendering intent. Relative Colorimetric!
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jc1
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« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2011, 07:47:15 AM »
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A gentle reminder, 2 places to be checked.  Smiley

(a) Edit > color setting > fewer options > conversion option
    Here is for user to set the system (preferred) default.

(b) Edit > convert to profile > conversion option
     Be aware that the conversion option over here may be different from (a), as it defaults to the previous or last selection.
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« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2011, 09:15:04 AM »
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To add to above.

Depending on the options (ACE, RelCol) selected , the setting (b) is also affecting the "preview" when assigning profile (Edit > assign profile --> preview). Confusion can be avoided if both (a) and (b) are set correctly.
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drcahmss
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« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2011, 02:46:50 PM »
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Checked both places and settings and everything seems fine.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2011, 03:04:18 PM »
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(a) Edit > color setting > fewer options > conversion option
    Here is for user to set the system (preferred) default.

(b) Edit > convert to profile > conversion option
     Be aware that the conversion option over here may be different from (a), as it defaults to the previous or last selection.


A is only applied when one uses Image>Mode Change. Its totally independent from Convert to Profile/Assign Profile. If you never use Mode Change, doesn’t matter what you set there (other than Dither, that controls dither in many areas in the app).
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Andrew Rodney
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drcahmss
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2011, 08:13:03 AM »
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I can only repeat what I said earlier.
I have checked both places and settings, and everything seems fine.

But still a warm result in photoshop, relative to the preview in Flexcolor!
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drcahmss
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« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2011, 07:45:50 AM »
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Does anyone have any other suggestions as to the cause of colour change?
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drcahmss
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2011, 02:04:32 AM »
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I am still trying to get to grips with this problem. I have been through all the suggestions offered but I still have the problem! If anyone as any other thoughts then they will be gratefully received.
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john.bulmer@virgin.net
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« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2011, 09:36:30 AM »
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I've been using a Flextight X5 for some while, and find it much easier to forget about the colour balance in the Flextight software and just adjust itin Photoshop.
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drcahmss
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« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2011, 08:09:48 AM »
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It is possible to correct the colour in photoshop but it is more work!
When you have measured the neutral grey in flexcolor and measured your highlights and shadows so that they are neutral it is very anoying to have to do this again in photoshop. I feel that the hasselblad input profile for the scanner is slightly off. Does anyone else have this problem?
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Idololab
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« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2011, 08:48:06 AM »
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I agree with John. I feel safer editing the fff file in CS5 and not in Flexcolor.
It is a bit more work to do but the result,I think, is better, mainly when the scan comes  from negative film.
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George Marinos
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« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2011, 08:56:58 PM »
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I'm having the same problem with a 949. Looks beautiful in Flexcolor. Warm Colors in Photoshop. Did you find any solution
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drcahmss
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« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2011, 09:48:39 AM »
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We also have a 949 which is exhibiting the same problem. I am sory to say that I have not found a solution to the problem as yet!  I am of the opinion that I will have, in some way, to edit the input profile for the scanner to correct the problem.
Does anyone know of a way, of taking a colour profile and manually editing it to remove some red and yellow?
Are there any software programes out there that can do this?

Any replies gratefully appreciated.
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