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Author Topic: prints dont match....  (Read 8052 times)
Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2011, 12:59:01 PM »
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Because it is a routine to check Photoshop settings. If those are OK no point in going to Control Panel. But if they are not - troubleshooting may be a bit different a quite a bit more complicated than you just described.

If the profile is in fact used by Photoshop a closer look into profile is in order. That does not involve Control Panel.
Is that only a feature added in CS5?  I have CS4 and what you describe is not available.  That's why I suggested going through the control panel.  In any case, Spectraview automates everything and as long as you don't create a second profile, this is a non-issue.
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kerriann85
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2011, 10:18:49 PM »
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If you are on a Windows machine, you can access your profile through the Control Panel.  Open it up and click on  color management The dialogue box will have three tabs: Devices, All Profiles, and Advanced.  The Devices tab will show all the profiles associated with that device.  Since you are using Spectraview you should show a profile name that has your printer ID and it will also show you when you calibrated it and the rough settings.  I have a NEC P221 so mine reads:  P221W 92100475NA 2011-03-05 18-28 D65 2.20; yours will be different.  The checkbox 'Use my settings for this device' should be checked (I'm pretty sure that Spectraview automatically sets this up for you).  I don't understand Iliah's point; if you have properly calibrated your monitor, Photoshop will use that calibration.  What you can change is the colorspace to work in.  Since I do most of my work in Lightroom with Prophoto, I have PS set up to use the Prophoto space as well.

One observation on your calibration setting; you are using the default monitor contrast setting which is probably way to high as inkjet printers cannot render that much contrast in an image.  You may want to change this the next time you calibrate to something like 350:1.  This, however, should not be why you are seeing the color problems in the prints you get back.

I found profile in the Control Panel.  It shows my NEC PA41..........  aAnd the chckbox is checked.
My lightroom and PS are both set to sRGB as is my camera.  Trying to keep things the same and simple.
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kerriann85
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2011, 10:20:40 PM »
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You can start with "Color Settings" in Photoshop (Shift-Ctrl-K). In the RGB drop-down you should see the name of your monitor profile on the fifth line from the top. The line should read "Monitor RGB - <the_name_of_your_profile". Close the dialogue with "Cancel".

Found it, and it's there as you said.
Not sure how I can upload it for evaluation tho
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kerriann85
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2011, 10:24:40 PM »
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I spent 5 minutes colour correcting your file on my laptop. The monitor is calibrated and I find it's not that far off, but keep in mind it's still a laptop and I don't usually use it for colour critical work. I've attached a levels correction for that file. The highlights blow out a bit but I think the colour is much closer to where you want it (probably still not perfect). Try it out and see how it looks on your monitor.

Try changing your white point setting to 6500 K. 5000K tend to give everything a yellow cast.

Another thing to consider is that your calibrator might be wonky. It's not unheard of. Pantone replaced a ton of Hueys because the early ones were defective.


I couldn't get the levels adjustment to open in Photoshop
Maybe I need to try some new calibration settings and see what happens.
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Luca Ragogna
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2011, 10:35:01 AM »
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I couldn't get the levels adjustment to open in Photoshop
Maybe I need to try some new calibration settings and see what happens.

Add a levels adjustment layer and pick "load levels preset..." from the adjustments palette flyout and pick the file I sent you.
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kerriann85
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2011, 11:28:09 AM »
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Add a levels adjustment layer and pick "load levels preset..." from the adjustments palette flyout and pick the file I sent you.

Aha, I needed to add the adj layer first.
Yes, she looks much better than the sunburned version, but still not quite like the file I originally saw in photoshop and expected to
see when it came back from the lab as a print.  I appreciate the time you took to do that.

So now, back to getting the image to print as I see it in Photoshop.  I'm going to try some different
calibration settings, do a new calibration and send some prints off to Walmart requesting no auto fixing.  At least I can
get feedback in an hour instead of 2 days from my lab.


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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2011, 02:17:25 PM »
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To make it easy to download your display profile without hunting for it and uploading to a file sharing site, just assign your custom NEC display profile in Photoshop and resave it using Save As...(not Save For Web) and upload the image here as you did before.

Some of us with Macs can use Extract Profile and examine it in Colorsync's 3D color gamut utility. It will also show other embedded data like the LUTs if any exist and whether there are errors (negative numbers) in the RGB matrix formulations.

I doubt there will be an issue but it's just something to rule out just in case.
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kerriann85
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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2011, 02:44:58 PM »
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To make it easy to download your display profile without hunting for it and uploading to a file sharing site, just assign your custom NEC display profile in Photoshop and resave it using Save As...(not Save For Web) and upload the image here as you did before.

Some of us with Macs can use Extract Profile and examine it in Colorsync's 3D color gamut utility. It will also show other embedded data like the LUTs if any exist and whether there are errors (negative numbers) in the RGB matrix formulations.

I doubt there will be an issue but it's just something to rule out just in case.


YOWZA!  I went to 'assign profile' with the monitor profile as instructed and the image went even brighter bright pink worse than the way it shows in my Windows folder and  how it prints...with the sunburned look!  Is that good or bad?  Here it is, I think this is what you wanted. 
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Czornyj
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« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2011, 03:25:14 PM »
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Assigning monitor profile to an sRGB image is pretty ponitless (like you alredy had noticed). If you want to have same look of sRGB image in Photoshop and in non color-aware viewer, install Multiprofiler, and choose sRGB mode - the monitor gamut will be recalibrated to simulate the smaller sRGB color space.
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kerriann85
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« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2011, 03:47:17 PM »
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Guys, thanks for being patient with me. This is driving me nuts.  Let's see if I'm understanding this....

I took the levels adjustment preset  that Luca did and dropped it onto my original image I liked.
It was way too cold and bluish for my taste.  So I dropped the layer down to 50%.  Didn't look too bad.
So I printed at Walmart with no auto corrections.
The print doesn't match the image I sent them, it's a bit warmer (redder)BUT it almost perfectly matches my original image before the levels adjustment!!

So if I were to take the set of 7 images from this job, where everyone looks sunburned. And drop the levels adjustment on then
back it off 50% they should print just beautiful, right?    So for the rest of  my life I have to have this magic levels adjustment preset handy. 
No thanks.   

Thus, this is where I have to reset the target for my calibration right?  I need to tell my monitor to make things look redder. Right?
Then when it looks too red in Photoshop I know I need to adjust it? 
Okay, I think I need to change the white point then right?  (Maybe I'll go read "why are my prints too dark" again.)

(If someone just wants to smack me and say "Duh" please go ahead)
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Czornyj
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« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2011, 04:09:23 PM »
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What sensor did you use to calibrate the display? Did you try to calibrate it with Multiprofiler (without a sensor)?
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kerriann85
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« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2011, 04:13:44 PM »
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What sensor did you use to calibrate the display? Did you try to calibrate it with Multiprofiler (without a sensor)?

The sensor came with the NEC monitor.  It's an x-rite eye-one display 2.

No I didn't, should I try without the sensor?
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2011, 04:52:25 PM »
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What sensor did you use to calibrate the display? Did you try to calibrate it with Multiprofiler (without a sensor)?
She had the Spectraview pack.  From her PS image in the beginning it looks like the monitor is OK.
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2011, 06:08:37 PM »
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Extracted the profile. The profile is OK.

The 3D color gamut plot is significantly larger than AdobeRGB in some areas mainly in reds, greens and blues.

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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2011, 06:31:36 PM »
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Don't adjust your monitor through calibration to get the posted image to match the Walmart print. You're in for a lot more work.

Did a test print of skin tones from the PDI color target several years ago at my local Walmart when they used a Fuji Frontier minilab printer and skin tones similar to the one posted here came across pinky peach with noticeable amount of red and very plastic looking.

What printer are they using at Walmart?

Was the subject wearing makeup that was pinky peach? Your first screenshot of the Photoshop version on the right looks too yellow and dull to where the lipstick is colored as if she's not wearing lipstick.

If you switch to Lab readouts in Photoshop's info palette try to edit the skintone so it reads equal numbers in the a and b channels. If Walmart prints that too red then edit only the hue on a layer set to Hue or Color Blend mode and try to get the Lab 'b' channel greater than 'a'.

Not much else you can do other than try to get a profile of that Walmart printer. Skin tones are the hardest to reproduce on printers designed to print from film (Fuji film in particular) which the Frontier is tuned to especially if it's at Walmart.
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Luca Ragogna
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« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2011, 06:40:36 PM »
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So if I were to take the set of 7 images from this job, where everyone looks sunburned. And drop the levels adjustment on then
back it off 50% they should print just beautiful, right?    So for the rest of  my life I have to have this magic levels adjustment preset handy. 
No thanks.   

I just did that to show you what the adjusted image would look like on your monitor. To me when the levels preset is applied the image looks pretty good. If it looks pretty good to you when you print it ("pretty good" is subjective) then I would conclude that the monitor calibration is the culprit and I think at this point that's been pretty much established by everyone else too.

If I were having this issue, my first step towards troubleshooting would be to borrow an identical spectro from somebody and try to recalibrate the exact same way as before. If that original image looks neutral on screen then the calibrator is not the issue. If it looks overly red like your print then you know to return the spectro and exchange it for a new one that works.

Assuming the borrowed spectro makes no difference in what you see on screen then you need to look at your software settings. I'm a stickler for process and would advise you to rule out each possibility working from the easy to fix to the more esoteric problems but I'll bet the borrowed spectro won't make any difference. You didn't mention how the file looks in Lightroom. If LR matches PS then I'd look at your system settings, if LR matches the print and the windows preview then I'd look at your PS settings.

Since the windows preview matches your print and the photoshop one does not I'd wager that the monitor profile is applied properly in your system settings and you have a setting improperly applied in photoshop.

I don't remember reading if you have "proof colors" turned on in the "view" menu when you're viewing the image. If you do, try turning it off and see if that fixes the problem. As far as I can tell your other settings look fine.
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2011, 06:41:16 PM »
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I need to make a correction.

Your first screenshot doesn't have an embedded profile so I assigned AdobeRGB which made the Photoshop preview look correct. The 'b' channel is slightly greater than 'a' in Lab readouts which says there's sufficient amount of yellow/orange to overcome magenta.

If you converted the screenshot to sRGB before posting and I assign the sRGB profile then the skin dulls and Lab 'a'=14 and 'b'=19 way too yellow and dull where before it was 'a'=20 and 'b'=22 assigning AdobeRGB.

I'm sampling from the chest area and not the cheeks which probably has pink makeup applied.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 06:44:16 PM by tlooknbill » Logged
kerriann85
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« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2011, 11:46:58 AM »
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I need to make a correction.

Your first screenshot doesn't have an embedded profile so I assigned AdobeRGB which made the Photoshop preview look correct. The 'b' channel is slightly greater than 'a' in Lab readouts which says there's sufficient amount of yellow/orange to overcome magenta.

If you converted the screenshot to sRGB before posting and I assign the sRGB profile then the skin dulls and Lab 'a'=14 and 'b'=19 way too yellow and dull where before it was 'a'=20 and 'b'=22 assigning AdobeRGB.

I'm sampling from the chest area and not the cheeks which probably has pink makeup applied.

Yes, I didn't catch it originally that there was no profile on the screenshot. That was an oversite. Normally anything saved in Photoshop i click the box that says "icc profile sRGB....." I neglected to do that.
It was mainly to illustrate the fact that there was so much difference between what I was seeing in windows (ans the print) and what I was seeing in Photoshop. Unfortunately without the embedded profile the picture on the right wasn't what I was seeing in Photoshop on the original file either!! Sorry about that.  Later on I posted the actual file of her that did have the sRGB profile.  I don't use aRGB anywhere. I use sRGB in the camera, in Lightroom, in photoshop cause that's what I send to the pro lab that prints for us.

I don't really know about Lab. 

I know that when I use the eyedropper and look at the info palette  the cmyk on caucassion skin should show me y a little more % than m. (in a nutshell) 
On Susan, the  m on her cheek is  one or two % above the y .  But I didn't think that was enough to make her look sunburned on the print.  I wonder if the eye dropper is telling me one thing and my EYES are actually telling me something else??  If I could use the eyedropper on the print would the values be the same? If I were wearing magenta tinted glasses when I looked at the screen would Photoshop match the print?

Consequently, I'm thinking I need to set my white balance differently in my calibration target so it turns the monitor a warmer redder color so I see things in photoshop as a warmer redder image???  Yes or No??

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kerriann85
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« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2011, 11:55:52 AM »
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I just did that to show you what the adjusted image would look like on your monitor. To me when the levels preset is applied the image looks pretty good. If it looks pretty good to you when you print it ("pretty good" is subjective) then I would conclude that the monitor calibration is the culprit and I think at this point that's been pretty much established by everyone else too.
** YES I WANT TO FIX THIS!!

If I were having this issue, my first step towards troubleshooting would be to borrow an identical spectro from somebody and try to recalibrate the exact same way as before. If that original image looks neutral on screen then the calibrator is not the issue. If it looks overly red like your print then you know to return the spectro and exchange it for a new one that works.
**I HAVE NO ONE TO BORROW FROM

Assuming the borrowed spectro makes no difference in what you see on screen then you need to look at your software settings. I'm a stickler for process and would advise you to rule out each possibility working from the easy to fix to the more esoteric problems but I'll bet the borrowed spectro won't make any difference. You didn't mention how the file looks in Lightroom. If LR matches PS then I'd look at your system settings, if LR matches the print and the windows preview then I'd look at your PS settings.
**YES, LR MATCHES PS   WHAT SETTINGS SHOULD I LOOK AT?   

Since the windows preview matches your print and the photoshop one does not I'd wager that the monitor profile is applied properly in your system settings and you have a setting improperly applied in photoshop.
**THIS MAKES SENSE,  HOW DO I FIX THIS?Huh

I don't remember reading if you have "proof colors" turned on in the "view" menu when you're viewing the image. If you do, try turning it off and see if that fixes the problem. As far as I can tell your other settings look fine.
**NOT TURNED ON. DON"T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT'S FOR  soft proofing?


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kerriann85
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« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2011, 12:00:42 PM »
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Just had to say Thanks again for sticking with me.   I wish I had someone to sit at my side and say, "Okay, first do this...."  and see what that does.

It would be nice to be able to borrow a different sensor to at least see if that was a problem.  Not possible.   

Next step?
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