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Author Topic: W  (Read 4139 times)
Dale Villeponteaux
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« on: March 28, 2011, 07:08:09 AM »
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With trepidation.
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William Walker
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 07:44:11 AM »
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Hi Dale

That is a very nice picture, the only problem I see is a technical one and the moment I mention it you will kick yourself! The horizon is not level. The picture tilts quite seriously from right to left.

Anyway, it should be easy to rectify!

I will leave it to the experts to make keener observations.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 07:48:00 AM by W. Walker » Logged

Bruce Cox
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 10:20:37 AM »
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I like the vertically layered zones of different aspects of the same light.   It is interesting to me that my gaze settles comfortably on the shore and horizon though the sharper geese seem to think they are the stars.  

Bruce
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 11:02:12 AM by Bruce Cox » Logged
PeterAit
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 10:24:53 AM »
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I love it! Very nice, although I think it would be better if the bright band of reflected sky at the bottom were cropped out.
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Peter
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 01:04:17 PM »
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Hi Dale

That is a very nice picture, the only problem I see is a technical one and the moment I mention it you will kick yourself! The horizon is not level. The picture tilts quite seriously from right to left.


And when I saw this, I immediately surmised that it was not taken straight-on(and therefore producing the sacred level horizon), but probably from left up river. If that is true, it seems to me that the horizon is just as it should be.

I agree with Peter that the bright bottom band of reflected sky could be reduced.

Otherwise, a pleasant picture.
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RSL
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 01:33:16 PM »
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The acid test is the telephone pole in the background. It should be vertical no matter what lateral angle the picture was shot from. Based on the pole, CS5 tells me the picture needs a 1.34 degree rotation clockwise, hardly enough to worry about.
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Dale Villeponteaux
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 01:41:21 PM »
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Thank you for looking.  The far shore is made by an elevated road that runs from near left to far right, thus the perspective make the shoreline look tilted.
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John R Smith
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2011, 02:25:12 AM »
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The acid test is the telephone pole in the background. It should be vertical no matter what lateral angle the picture was shot from. Based on the pole, CS5 tells me the picture needs a 1.34 degree rotation clockwise, hardly enough to worry about.

Russ, you should see some of the poles we have around here. You really wouldn't want to use them to establish where vertical should be . . .

 Wink John
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 03:56:55 AM »
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If the only comment you have to make is about the horizon, stay away from the keyboard!

Cheers,

I presume that comment was directed at me?

If you are going to use your keyboard, can I suggest going the "whole hog" and explaining your comment. After all, how will we ever learn anything here, which, I would guess, is part of the deal?

I look forward to hearing your theory on when a level horizon is a good idea and when it is not.

By the way, when a river tilts as much as this one is, it becomes a waterfall. When a dam tilts that much, it becomes empty!
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EduPerez
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 04:32:10 AM »
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The acid test is the telephone pole in the background. It should be vertical no matter what lateral angle the picture was shot from. Based on the pole, CS5 tells me the picture needs a 1.34 degree rotation clockwise, hardly enough to worry about.

So... cropping is a sin, but leveling an horizon is acceptable? Sorry but, you lost me with this one!
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degrub
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 08:14:52 AM »
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i like a tighter shot of this frame - makes it moodier, with less distraction from the light, IMHO. Try framing so that the bright  sky is not visible in the background or the water - ie  top just above the road guard and btm edge just above the tree line in the water. Then  the frame has a flow to the upper right as well.. just a suggestion.

Nice capture !

Frank
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Bruce Cox
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 08:46:29 AM »
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How about reflections in still water toward the middle of the frame lined with what they are reflecting?  Poles might be vertical, but here they are little short.  Careful work may add a few decimal points to RSL's figure.  He will, however, still be right that it matters little.  I continue to like my idea that the most interesting part of the photo is a little out of focus.  Sharpen it up and the controversy may die down, though I doubt it. 

Bruce
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RSL
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 08:54:50 AM »
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Russ, you should see some of the poles we have around here. You really wouldn't want to use them to establish where vertical should be . . .
 Wink John

John, I wasn't making a statement about the general verticality of the world's telephone poles. What I said is that this telephone pole should be vertical in the picture. It's obviously properly set and it hasn't been hit by Tom and his soccer balls, so one can conclude that it's pretty close to vertical. Believe me, Cornwall isn't the only place where telephone poles are off kilter. You should see northern Michigan.

Edu, When did I say cropping is a sin? What I said, and say, is that failing to try to get the picture right on the viewfinder is a sin. Since I frequently shoot fast I frequently have to correct the horizon. That's not the same thing as cropping around to see if you can find a picture in the amorphous mass of tones you shot at random.
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John R Smith
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 09:34:22 AM »
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Edu, When did I say cropping is a sin? What I said, and say, is that failing to try to get the picture right on the viewfinder is a sin. Since I frequently shoot fast I frequently have to correct the horizon. That's not the same thing as cropping around to see if you can find a picture in the amorphous mass of tones you shot at random.

Ah, Russ, now I can agree with you. Completely and 100%.

John
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 11:56:08 AM »
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I use a simple rule of thumb for finding verticals in images with reflections: no matter how crooked or tilted a tree or pole is, just connect the same spot above the water with its reflection. In this case, I came up with a tilt of around 1.7 degrees and the following result:

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RSL
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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2011, 12:27:15 PM »
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How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can anyone think of a way to count them? Does it matter whether or not the pin is exactly vertical? Do the angels fall off if the pin isn't vertical? These are all profound questions, just like the other one we've been discussing. Oh, and by the way, are angels on the head of a pin as lovely as two ducks on a foggy pond?
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2011, 01:12:09 PM »
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How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can anyone think of a way to count them? Does it matter whether or not the pin is exactly vertical? Do the angels fall off if the pin isn't vertical? These are all profound questions, just like the other one we've been discussing. Oh, and by the way, are angels on the head of a pin as lovely as two ducks on a foggy pond?

Russ, I can clearly see now that your second love is poetry. Wink Cheesy
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Slobodan

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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2011, 01:18:59 PM »
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... Once again if the only comment that you have to make is that the 'horizon is not straight stay away from the keyboard...

There are certainly fine images where tilted horizon does not matter at all. But there are many more where even slightly tilted horizon creates the uneasy feeling that something is just not right, thus distracting viewer's attention. This picture, otherwise fine in the atmosphere department, is one of them. Pointing it out is thus helpful, even if nothing else is said.
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William Walker
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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2011, 01:57:53 PM »
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There are certainly fine images where tilted horizon does not matter at all. But there are many more where even slightly tilted horizon creates the uneasy feeling that something is just not right, thus distracting viewer's attention. This picture, otherwise fine in the atmosphere department, is one of them. Pointing it out is thus helpful, even if nothing else is said.

Slobodan, thank you.

Your edit immediately dealt with the "uneasy feeling" the picture gave me - most notably at the bottom where the tops of the trees are (now) level.

I find it amazing that Tom can tell someone who is trying to participate on this board in a helpful way to "keep away from the keyboard" , yet it is quite OK for him to "take to the keyboard" with a totally unhelpful and unnecessary comment.

Some opinions carry a lot more weight here than others, and I value yours!

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tom b
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« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2011, 02:35:14 PM »
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W, you are taking this far too personally, I haven't even mentioned a name. You just have to google "step away from the' to realise its common usage. It's a gentle reminder to people to stop doing annoying things like a commuter with a mobile/cell phone saying 'I'm on the train'. Saying the horizon is not straight is one of those comments, it is just plain annoying.

So Step away from… meant more in line with the Dilbert comic here:

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-05-04/

Where did the line 'Step away from the…' come from, was it Seinfeld?

Cheers,
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 03:16:34 PM by tom b » Logged

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