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Author Topic: A Continuation of Seamus's Front of House People  (Read 6573 times)
seamus finn
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« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2011, 04:57:46 AM »
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Over here they ask what's the difference between Ireland and Iceland? One letter.
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Rob C
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« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2011, 08:44:04 AM »
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Here in Spain, someone recently posted a joke in a newspaper, saying something along the lines of "why do we need governments, when we have markets"...



Eduardo


In my usual lunchtime restaurant they have an optimistically large bottle for the tips. Stuck to the circumference is a poster some wag has made/discovered: it's a picture of Franco and he's saying 'bastards, in my time you could smoke!'.

For those not au fait with current politics, smoking has recently been outlawed in all restaurants and bars. This has had interesting side-effects: in some establishments the food suddenly tastes amazingly good, whilst in others it has just as suddenly dropped in perceived quality...

;-) or, alternatively, :-( depending on where you dine.

Rob C

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feppe
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« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2011, 11:03:32 AM »
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The whole Euro idea was based on doing away with individual sovereignty.

Not so. European Central Bank does have sole control of monetary policy, but fiscal policy is still controlled by individual countries. It is in large part the fiscal policy of some countries in the periphery of the region which is threatening euro-area monetary stability.

So it is the existence of sovereign fiscal policy combined with collective responsibility which is biting us in the ass: those countries in the periphery took the risk, but everyone ends up paying for the failur in bail-outs, loan backing, weakened euro, and giving perverse incentives for future offenders.

But Finland just might put an end to that craziness.
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RSL
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2011, 12:11:14 PM »
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Harri, What you just explained is exactly what I said. The Euro idea can't possibly survive as long as individual nations have their own fiscal policies. The people who thought up the Euro weren't stupid. They realized that, which is why there was a massive attempt to create a unified Europe where a central authority would control the fisc. As I said, it didn't work out that way, and now the Euro is in deep doo-doo.
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feppe
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2011, 03:57:16 PM »
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Harri, What you just explained is exactly what I said. The Euro idea can't possibly survive as long as individual nations have their own fiscal policies. The people who thought up the Euro weren't stupid. They realized that, which is why there was a massive attempt to create a unified Europe where a central authority would control the fisc. As I said, it didn't work out that way, and now the Euro is in deep doo-doo.

Ah I see; you meant what they really were trying to do instead of what they did do.
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Rob C
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« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2011, 04:40:57 PM »
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The basic idea of a free trading zone is cool, the idea of a federal union is not. We are far too diverse in nationality, types, culture, expectations and mores. Britain, like Germany perhaps, signs up to something and expects it to stick; the others are far more laid back. They sign up to everything but know all along that they are jolly well going to do exactly as they please. You have but to live in southern Europe for a while to understand this and to respect it. Yes, respect it. It is far more realistic and once you accept that that's how everything is going to pan out, nothing surprises anymore and it's business as usual.

Domestic housekeeping glitches aside, look at NATO right now. Need more be said?

I don't know why any of this comes as a surprise to the fans of a European Union. They need but look across the water to see that, from a European perspective, there is no such thing as an American. There are Dutch Americans, German Americans, lots of Irish Americans, Afro Americans, Italian Americans and so on, but the only ones that seem happy to be plain Americans appear to live in reservations. Or so it seems to me here. But I could be wrong, and they be even more fragmented by tribe than that! Hell, much of Britain wants to break away into tiny fragmments and Italy and Spain were ever thus, despite politicians saying otherwise, and parts of southern France still harbour a dream of being part of Cataluña. Most of us need a federal state of Europe about as much as Tibet does China!

Rob C
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« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2011, 06:23:49 PM »
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Ah I see; you meant what they really were trying to do instead of what they did do.

Harri,  It's been pretty clear all along that what the European Union people wanted to do was eliminate the sovereignty of its various members and create a European government run by unelected bureaucrats. If that's what you mean by 'what they really were trying to do', then you're right. That's what I meant.
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« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2011, 06:44:13 PM »
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I don't know why any of this comes as a surprise to the fans of a European Union. They need but look across the water to see that, from a European perspective, there is no such thing as an American. There are Dutch Americans, German Americans, lots of Irish Americans, Afro Americans, Italian Americans and so on, but the only ones that seem happy to be plain Americans appear to live in reservations. Or so it seems to me here. But I could be wrong...

Rob, That's an illusion that's been created by our "progressive" publications, all of which are part of the "establishment" that lives on our east coast and our Left coast. But in flyover country, the bulk of the US between east and Left coasts, people mostly are just plain Americans. Yes, some are black, red or yellow (in skin color) some are of Scandinavian extraction, some have parents who came here from the low countries, some are of German extraction, and, as you point out, lots of them are of Irish extraction. Some are mongrels like me with Welsh, Irish, English, and a bit of American Indian in their genes. But most of them don't call themselves German-Americans, Irish-Americans, Finnish-Americans, etc., but, simply Americans. Our "progressive" publications insist on using the racist term "African-American," but most of the black people I know think of themselves as Americans. If anybody gets us pissed off enough, they find that out in a hurry, as did The Germans, the Japanese, the Italians and the Taliban, to name just a few.
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feppe
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« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2011, 07:40:08 PM »
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Rob, That's an illusion that's been created by our "progressive" publications, all of which are part of the "establishment" that lives on our east coast and our Left coast. But in flyover country, the bulk of the US between east and Left coasts, people mostly are just plain Americans. Yes, some are black, red or yellow (in skin color) some are of Scandinavian extraction, some have parents who came here from the low countries, some are of German extraction, and, as you point out, lots of them are of Irish extraction. Some are mongrels like me with Welsh, Irish, English, and a bit of American Indian in their genes. But most of them don't call themselves German-Americans, Irish-Americans, Finnish-Americans, etc., but, simply Americans. Our "progressive" publications insist on using the racist term "African-American," but most of the black people I know think of themselves as Americans. If anybody gets us pissed off enough, they find that out in a hurry, as did The Germans, the Japanese, the Italians and the Taliban, to name just a few.

That could be the case in mid-West, but I lived in Virginia for four years and have been from Boston to Miami on East coast, and I've met one (1) Caucasian who called himself an "American;" everyone else identifies themselves hyphenated.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2011, 09:19:18 PM »
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That could be the case in mid-West, but I lived in Virginia for four years and have been from Boston to Miami on East coast, and I've met one (1) Caucasian who called himself an "American;" everyone else identifies themselves hyphenated.

Ah... the perils of anecdotal evidence.
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seamus finn
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« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2011, 02:44:47 AM »
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Perhaps what they really had in mind in the beginning was a United States of Europe. They always deny this and maintain all they were trying to to was create one of the world's most powerful trading blocks - trade, not political union,  being the critical point all along.

Meanwhile, here's a little factoid for you all:


A QUARTER of a million people have nothing left to live on once they have paid mortgage and electricity bills, according to a new survey which reveals the true extent of the hardship imposed on households by the recession.

And another 210,000 people are so hard-up that their income does not even cover their essential bills for heat and the cost of the home, research commissioned by the Irish League of Credit Unions shows.

Another three-quarters of a million people have on average just €70 left each month after paying essential bills, the iReach survey conducted for the Irish League of Credit Unions shows.

The research, conducted to see how much disposable income households have, found that a large number -- 428,000 -- feel there is no future for their family in this country.

Family incomes have been hit by tax changes, higher utility bills and transport costs, the research found.

Most people regard their mortgage as their most important bill, followed by electricity and gas and then groceries.

Car costs, loan repayments, credit cards and health insurance were all ranked at a similar level of importance.

The survey, conducted among 1,000 adults, found that 245,000 adults have nothing left to live on after they have paid their mortgage and utility bills.


- Irish Independent.[/b]


(I'm back to reading the papers again
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Rob C
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« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2011, 03:11:33 AM »
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Car costs, loan repayments, credit cards and health insurance were all ranked at a similar level of importance.

The survey, conducted among 1,000 adults, found that 245,000 adults have nothing left to live on after they have paid their mortgage and utility bills.[/b][/i]

- Irish Independent.[/b]


(I'm back to reading the papers again


There's something Irish about those figures, all right!

;-)

Rob C
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Rob C
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« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2011, 03:15:31 AM »
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Ah... the perils of anecdotal evidence.


But Slobodan, who else has factual understanding based on experience?

You must know better than I that figures alone can be made to prove any angle you may select, but that experience tells you its own story which may differ from the propaganda, should that be what it is.

Rob C
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« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2011, 06:08:06 AM »
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That could be the case in mid-West, but I lived in Virginia for four years and have been from Boston to Miami on East coast, and I've met one (1) Caucasian who called himself an "American;" everyone else identifies themselves hyphenated.

Exactly, Harri. On the east coast and Left coast that's what you'll find. But in the heartland it's different. And the east coast and Left coast are losing their most productive people at an ever increasing rate -- people who identify themselves as Americans instead of as hyphenated Americans. Those folks are moving to places like Colorado, Texas, etc. It's one reason the east and Left coast states are in an increasingly disastrous financial condition.
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seamus finn
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« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2011, 08:00:26 AM »
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Quote
There's something Irish about those figures, all right!

Ah Rob.don't be like that - there's only so much we can take at this stage.Sample polling can be very accurate, no matter how it sounds.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 08:02:55 AM by seamus finn » Logged

RSL
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« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2011, 09:18:26 AM »
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Perhaps what they really had in mind in the beginning was a United States of Europe.

Seamus, Is there any doubt that's what they had in mind -- with themselves in charge?
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feppe
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« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2011, 11:11:43 AM »
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Ah... the perils of anecdotal evidence.

Not perils - I responded with (useless) anecdotal evidence to counterpoint the (useless) anecdotal evidence given.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2011, 12:09:02 PM »
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But Slobodan, who else has factual understanding based on experience?

You must know better than I that figures alone can be made to prove any angle you may select, but that experience tells you its own story which may differ from the propaganda, should that be what it is.

Rob C

Rob, although separated by different sentences and paragraphs, it appears that you are saying that experience tells you its own story (true), which provides for a factual understanding (not necessarily true). It might just as well be yet another example of not being able to see the wood from the trees.

Coincidentally, as I was writing this, Harri (feppe) responded to my post with a qualifier "useless" (for anecdotal evidence), which is exactly what I had in mind as "perils".

Eye-witness accounts are notoriously unreliable (proven in numerous studies... and Russ, if you insist, I will cite them). Personal experiences often are prone to what is known as "availability bias", i.e., a tendency in decision making to give greater (and undue) weight to facts available to us.

I've spent 27 years working and living with Americans, in their government bodies, blue-chip corporations, business schools, suburbs, downtowns, abroad and here (in the U.S.), and I have NEVER, EVER met a hyphenated American (i.e., someone who would introduce themselves as such). Ooops, scratch that.. I did meet one, though indirectly, on TV, the "truck stop-restroom fun" governor, who started his resignation speech introducing himself as a gay-American.

But I did meet people (e.g. my next-door neighbor) with strong opposite feelings, who would passionately deny they are anything but American, i.e., not Irish, not Irish-American, but simply American. He is a second-generation immigrant, but it was his parents who, immediately upon immigrating, instilled that in him.

America is an immigrant country. America is also a self-selected country, in the sense that people who came here were not selected for immigration by anybody else but themselves. And they did so precisely because they wanted to become Americans and already shared and admired common values this nation has. Freedom and opportunity, above all. As much as they might occasionally be, or appear so, trivialized, ridiculed, trite, cynical, reduced, trampled on, etc. these are the very basic values people still hold dear and come here for.

But I gladly admit that the above is yet another useless anecdotal evidence.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2011, 01:19:49 PM »
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My father, an immigrant himself, used to distinguish between immigrants and those born here as "Americans by choice rather than by accident."  Wink
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Rob C
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« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2011, 02:05:47 PM »
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Ah Rob.don't be like that - there's only so much we can take at this stage.Sample polling can be very accurate, no matter how it sounds.


Seamus - I'm not at all sure if you took my point, or whether you did take it and are pretending that you didn't so that I'd feel guilty of something I didn't actually do; womed used to do that to me... But to clarify, if only for myself: you ask 1000 people and they speak for 245,000? That's all towards which I meant to poke a wry question mark.

;-)

Rob C
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