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Author Topic: My simple yet halting frustrations with C1 v6  (Read 4433 times)
Phil Indeblanc
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« on: April 25, 2011, 10:21:22 PM »
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I am running a Win7 64bit system with a scratch drive that is RAID0 SSD, OS is Raptor 150 drive, and the images get captured/written to a Intel server on the network.
I have 16GB RAM, and even moved my system folder to the scrath drive to make it faster on my Quad 3.6Ghz Intel machine.

C1 is just sooo slow.  Why!?...Why oh Why??

Apps that I usually run along my workflow are Adobe Bridge, ACDSee Pro3, and Photoshop CS5, usually a Web page, and sometimes remotely logged into another computer for email.

Why does C1 work in super slow motion when I want to switch frome image to image, and then focus takes longer.

On another system, I run C1 v6 and v3.78 on Duo single core 3.6Ghz, 4gb ram, Win Xp pro machine. V6 takes LONG to show the image after I release the shutter from my Phase back (22mpix) images take at least 3 seconds or 5 seconds longer to show up (I notice v6 applied settings from previous adjustment (which is not too vital besides White balance set. I think v3.78 also does this).  3.78 is so much more nimble. I press the shutter button, and within a couple sec the image is ready to view. Focus panning around is also much faster.  these are the BASIC needs in capture and preview for ANYONE doing photo work....I would think?

This leads me to believe that the software itself, although 64bit, using 16GB of RAM, is slower than the old 3.78 that is using only some of 4GB of ram on a single core system.  The systems I have and use for photo, I don't have junk software on, not that my other systems do, but I am very strict about what gets on these systems to keep them lean and with minimal clutter.  I have had another set of SSD drive I plan on using for the OS in RAID 0 with a imaged backup, and just have not thought it worth the trouble with the C1 acting so slow.

For some reason ACRaw, although the latest update, only sees the Tif preview file from my Phase captures and I can't use it to process, even though I prefer C1, but wouldn't give it a second thought as the speed is almost night and day.

Anyone have some ideas?  I tried to be informative of my setup so people with some knowledge can make some suggestions.  I also have 2 30" displays that are on the system for editing.

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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 04:59:28 AM »
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I am running a Win7 64bit system with a scratch drive that is RAID0 SSD, OS is Raptor 150 drive, and the images get captured/written to a Intel server on the network.
I have 16GB RAM, and even moved my system folder to the scrath drive to make it faster on my Quad 3.6Ghz Intel machine.

C1 is just sooo slow.  Why!?...Why oh Why??

Apps that I usually run along my workflow are Adobe Bridge, ACDSee Pro3, and Photoshop CS5, usually a Web page, and sometimes remotely logged into another computer for email.

Why does C1 work in super slow motion when I want to switch frome image to image, and then focus takes longer.

Hi Phil,

C1 builds it's previews and stores it's image settings in subfolders of where the Raw files reside. Could it be that your server on the network is the slowest link in the chain? Also, on first use of a folder, all files are processed, which may take a while and thus slow down other operations temporarily.

Cheers,
Bart
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 06:25:02 AM »
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C1 is not fast when accessing/writing to servers. This is especially true depending on which connection protocol you run your server off of.

Even if it was more server friendly I would highly recommend against capturing directly to a server with any software.

How is the speed when capturing/accessing to/from a local drive (especially a faster one like the one you have set as the OS)?

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 08:22:34 AM by dougpetersonci » Logged

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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 12:08:55 PM »
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Thank you Bart and Doug for your reply,

Doug: I do capture to a local drive that the digiback is connected to, but then I move them to the server, as the editing system is NOT the capture system... so either it will be SHARED from the capture computer to the editing station or I move them to the server for the editing station to access.  OR move them from Capture station to Editing station local drive...job complete THEN move to server.  That's gonna fill a 10K Local drive rather fast!

Are most C1 users capturing and editing to a LOCAL drive, then after the job is delivered / complete (sometimes a week later), they move files to a secure server ?
I can't imagine shooters capture to a CF card, then dump to a Local drive, then when complete move to a secure server...is this the case?

I really want to resolve this as I do love C1 and hate to struggle with it.  I do think my 4 servers are the slowest link, although it's directly connected to the network via Gigabit Lan with all gigabit compliant parts. The image server is a 2.4?ghz with 2gb ram and it is basically 4 drives in RAID 3+1. I think part of it is the "first use" build you mention.  Also, maybe the way I work...As I avoid "sessions", I capture to a SINGLE folder, then move the images over to the clients folder that is created for the project name that was created before the shoot. (hope that makes sense).

I ask as I do use ACR on my 5Dmk2 (similar file chunkiness) without the drag.  Perhaps there is a way in how the FOLDERS are assigned and used to help speed things up?

It may not be much of comparison all the features that v6 has vs 3.78, (specially when one waits for the dev team to get things just right from v4 to v5 ) BUT, when you upgrade, you don't expect speed to suffer, and for capture, it suffers... a bit....editing I may have to do a comparison. and when you're used to things with 3.78 being snappy, the last thing you want in upgrade is to take a step back.  So I am OK with Capturing with 3.78, but to add another drive on the Local editing machine maybe necessary from the feedback, but rather changing the workflow drastically.

I would really appreciate further feedback. Thanks!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 01:50:41 PM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 02:10:35 PM »
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The speed of the connection and the speed of the CPU/ram/disk on the server is not the issue. Again, C1 does not do well reading/writing across a network connection.

You will drive yourself nuts trying to edit across a network connection in C1. You either need to edit images located on the local drive, or you need to change to another program.

Alternatively you can look into trying alternative network protocols - since we (Capture Integration) don't recommend (at all) the workflow you are in I haven't looked into it myself but I know that various network protocols work (modestly) better than others for use with C1. That's not my recommendation - I strongly suggest you drop the server-hosted editing workflow in favor of editing locally and archiving to the server afterwards - but I mention it in the interest of completeness.

Version 3 and 4/5/6 are essentially completely different programs. The way version 3 read/wrote data to the sidecars/proxies allowed it to run faster over networks which is a big benefit to that version for a small minority of users who used it this way. The way version 4/5/6 reads/writes data to the sidecar/proxies allows it to, among many other advantages, look at a 100% view of the image within the main preview window and produce previews which are not ugly on hig-res screens and contain false-moire and false-noise, which is a big benefit to a very broad base of the users. If you fall into the small minority of users who benefited from version 3's ability to run quickly across a network then it's pretty natural to feel jilted - and you were, but not as mistake/capricious-neglect but as a trade off for other benefits.

Remember that after editing 1000 images in Capture One locally all you'd need to do is upload the "Capture One" subfolder containing the sidecar proxies/settings to the server, replacing the one there already. That would update crops/adjustments/metadata etc to the raw files and would take only a fraction of the time that it takes to re-upload to the server the entire folder containing the raws.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 11:19:13 AM »
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Thanks Doug,

At least that changes my expectation and perhaps my workflow.  I think the mind hurdle, and redundancy I will have is being in the same room and having to capture on one computer, then moving files to an editing computer, and after the work is complete move archive to server. If the editor wasn't using two 30" screens, I would shoot via the same system, and drag a monitor closer to set, but that is not likely for most people, as I think dual monitor for editing is a norm.

I have 2 questions that come up right away as I am going to make some changes before Monday. This might also help me push towards change...

1. When I select a image on the thumbnails screen in C1v6, the image displays in the Preview rather timely, but the white boarder that shows around the Thumbnail side indicating the selected image takes a few seconds longer, and its confusing to know what image is in the preview due to the lag ...Is this due to the server connection speed?  I will test this myself also, perhaps you know from experience.

2. If I connect an eSATA-II 8-bay(8 HDD) JBOD drives, will this be as good as Internal?
This way I shoot on the capture system with a swap drive in the system, then take that drive and insert into the edit system without "transferring" files on the network.

Thanks
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 02:40:19 PM »
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If the editor wasn't using two 30" screens, I would shoot via the same system, and drag a monitor closer to set, but that is not likely for most people, as I think dual monitor for editing is a norm.

We love dual monitor capture stations. One for browser/tools and one for just the image. With the proper cart and monitor arms (I love ergotron arms and American Case cases - though we're biased as we're a dealer for them) two 30" monitors is not ludicrous to cart around (as long as you're not moving it a huge amount during the shoot).

1. When I select a image on the thumbnails screen in C1v6, the image displays in the Preview rather timely, but the white boarder that shows around the Thumbnail side indicating the selected image takes a few seconds longer, and its confusing to know what image is in the preview due to the lag ...Is this due to the server connection speed?  I will test this myself also, perhaps you know from experience.

Sounds like an issue because you're accessing across a network. Speed is very fast on internal drives.

2. If I connect an eSATA-II 8-bay(8 HDD) JBOD drives, will this be as good as Internal?
This way I shoot on the capture system with a swap drive in the system, then take that drive and insert into the edit system without "transferring" files on the network.

Yes.

Just be extremely careful about the way you physically set it up so that the cable to the drive can't be accidentally tugged loose during shooting and make sure it's on an APC. Bad things can happen when writing to an external drive and the power/cable gets disconnected.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 06:32:06 PM »
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Ok, setup a secondary drive that connects direct sata2

I timed 6.2 (just updated), vs. 3.78

I wanted to see how long the differnece was in speed after pulling the shutter to seeing the image large on the screen.
I did this 4 times each so I can get a range as the timer is not accurately setup to auto start/stop.

C1 v3.78 4-5 seconds
C1 v6.xx 12-14 seconds

to see it up on screen.  It isn't the capture folder lagging. 
Maybe C1's next release could be a v6 Lite, for basic adjustments/white balance/details (Same as 3.78 abilities) ?
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 12:52:12 PM »
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Since I have installed OpenCL for video driver I also have noticed things to be smoother. I will test capture speed also. Anyone know if OpenCl will make a difference in captuer speed?  Anyone else notice the speed of about 12-14 seconds to capture/preview?
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2011, 10:56:07 PM »
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I get around 5-7 seconds for capture/preview on C1 v6 running a Mac Pro with 8 GB RAM.

When I run C1 on my WIN 7-64 workstation (dual processors X5667 @ 3.07GHz; 24 GB RAM) for editing, it runs noticeably slower than CS5 or LR3. This slowness has made it harder for me to learn C1 like I would like to. It is just quicker/easier for me to jump into LR for quick raw processing, and then jump to PS from there. I like the seamless integration. I cannot understand why anyone starting from scratch or wanting to update their catalogs would be doing the Media Pro to C1 switch--it is not time efficient from my end.  Huh
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 10:30:43 AM »
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Thanks for confirming this. I thought I was alone and no one really cared about the speed.  It IS slower on the PC, and using later 6.x version of C1. 
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