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Author Topic: How do people deal with canvas "shrinkage"?  (Read 5795 times)
framah
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2011, 03:02:52 PM »
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One more thing to add to this: I'm beginning to think shrinkage is the dirty little secret of canvas printing Smiley All the fancy pre-made stretcher bars are available in even length increments. For people doing low-volume work who don't want to invest in custom fabricating their own stretcher bars to length after the print is done you wind up with a very rude surprise the first time you do a big canvas! Nowhere do the companies selling stretcher bars (or canvas for that matter) warn you about this.

Neil

Neil.. you do realize that those stretcher bars are made for canvas that you paint on, right?  That's why they are in even length increments rather than by the 1/4" or whatever.

Our use of them for stretching printing canvas is not their main concern. Which is why it is better to make your own stretcher bars after you printed the piece. Problem solved. Grin
Buy a good chop saw and a corner vise and do your own to fit.

I'll make a framer out of you yet!!

As a side thought here... what if the canvas is stretched a bit (under tension) when it is wound onto the core at the plant?  Try unrolling a length of it off the roll  (without cutting it off) and let it set for a few minutes. Then roll it back up and feed it thru the printer and see if it still comes out short.

Ralph
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mikev1
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2011, 03:11:34 PM »
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As a side thought here... what if the canvas is stretched a bit (under tension) when it is wound onto the core at the plant?  Try unrolling a length of it off the roll  (without cutting it off) and let it set for a few minutes. Then roll it back up and feed it thru the printer and see if it still comes out short.

Ralph

I've noticed on a couple rolls of the BC Lyve and a roll of the Epson Exhibition Matte Canvas that the weave of the canvas wasn`t straight but curved across the width of the roll.  This would indicate to me that there was uneven tension when they were putting it on the core.
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neile
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2011, 03:54:41 PM »
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Neil.. you do realize that those stretcher bars are made for canvas that you paint on, right?  That's why they are in even length increments rather than by the 1/4" or whatever.

Maybe for the traditional ones you pick up at art stores, but the current crop of IGWrap style bars are clearly targeted to the inkjet printing market, not artists. Their target market *is* people doing canvas printing on inkjets, and you'd think between them and the canvas manufacturers they would either figure out how to solve the issue or provide good guidance on how to deal with the issue.

Case in point: Lexjet's new PDF on canvas printing. It's a beautifully produced 9 page document that claims it contains "everything you need to know from start to finish".  Their "step-by-step instructions" that show how easy it is to use their kits make no mention of shrinkage at all.

Neil
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Neil Enns
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2011, 04:15:41 PM »
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Neil, when I set up my 8300 to print on Lyve I created my own custom media type. As part of this process the 8300 prints out a series of lines on the canvas, over 12 to 18 inches (if memory serves me right), and then takes some measurements. It then computes the "gap" and creates a compensation table.

This has worked very well for me. In fact, I had to create a separate media type for printing on scrap sheets. For cut sheets you do not need any compensation. The canvas roll must create drag on the printing mechanism, and the compensation table addresses this.

Terry.
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neile
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2011, 04:24:21 PM »
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Neil, when I set up my 8300 to print on Lyve I created my own custom media type. As part of this process the 8300 prints out a series of lines on the canvas, over 12 to 18 inches (if memory serves me right), and then takes some measurements. It then computes the "gap" and creates a compensation table.

Yup, I did the same thing with my roll of Lyve. I didn't bother to do it with the Sunset Select because LexJet provides their own custom media type on their website for the 8300. I may try doing this prior to my next canvas job and see if my custom media type works better than the one from LexJet.

Neil
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2011, 05:43:55 PM »
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Yup, I did the same thing with my roll of Lyve. I didn't bother to do it with the Sunset Select because LexJet provides their own custom media type on their website for the 8300.

Perhaps Canon considers the compensation to be unique enough for each printer that it's not included in a vendor-supplied customer media type. Or, perhaps LexJet let this part out.

It will be interesting to see what your testing shows.

Terry.
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namartinnz
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« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2011, 07:20:41 PM »
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Same as everyone else here I noticed the shrinkage after making a 1000mm wide panorama and it was only 990 or so mm. Using Breathing Color Chromata and Galmour II, I worked out adding 0.8% length wise was around the right adjustment - because you do get some stretch when mounting <sigh>. Luckily this % shrinkage is fairly accurate for recent dried coated prints - I did have an old art print around 1.6m long that did shrink over time buy around 2% or more - that got binned...

Luckily I custom make my own frames so it's not an issue, but when the customer  specifies 1000mm I want to be within 1 or 2mm.
Neal
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 10:15:05 PM by namartinnz » Logged

KenBabcock
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2011, 08:07:40 PM »
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I don't usually print too large.  I'm usually around 16x20, 18x24 or 20x30 sizes.  Sometime I'll go larger but not usually.

What I do on those sizes if I'm doing a mirror wrap is simply as .2" on the length before doing my mirror.  I also only coat with Eco Print Shield, and perhaps that doesn't have as much shrinkage as the Glamour II almost everyone else seems to be using.

Simple, but it works every single time and I get it dead on.
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neile
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2011, 10:32:11 PM »
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Well, I just did another two prints off the 8300 using the Sunset Select Matte. One was a little 10" test print printed 3-up: at exactly 10", scaled 101.25, and scaled 102%. After printing there was essentially no shrinkage, the 10" test measured 9 15/16".

My next test was an 18x24" print*. Measured when it came off the printer and it was spot on 24". So I take back everything I said about feed and wondering about the media type settings from LexJet.

I'll spray tomorrow night and see what happens after that.

Neil

* I didn't scale this one because given the image being printed I will just be wrapping the image along the bottom around, not doing a mirrored edge. So I can align the top mirrored edge perfectly and let the bottom wrap wherever it falls.
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Neil Enns
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neile
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2011, 10:41:07 PM »
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I also went back and looked at my image from last night that prompted this thread, and... well, I screwed up the gallery wrap edge on one side which accounts for most of the offset I noticed Sad

Sigh.

Maybe I don't have a shrinkage problem at all. Could I be that lucky? Cheesy

Neil
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ghaynes754
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« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2011, 10:49:54 PM »
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So here's a bit of a twist on this subject.  I've started mounting to 3/4 Gatorboard.  Just did a show and found that while my paper prints (Lexjet Metallic) looked great all of my Canvas prints (Hahnemuhle Monet sprayed with EcoPrintshield) has shrunk on the Gatorboard leaving a pretty much even edge gap between the edge of the canvas and the edge of the board.  I use a Drytac cold laminator with the Bestmount adhesive. Bestmount is white so now I have a not dis-pleasing white border around the print. 

I printed and mounted most of these a couple of months ago.

My question, has anyone had a similar experience?  Perhaps I should let my canvases 'age' after coating so that all the the shrinkage has occured?

Bill T. if you see this have you noticed this on your MiracleMuck mounting?

Gary
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Mike Sellers
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2011, 10:47:42 AM »
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Ken,
Shouldn`t the step of expanding by 101.25% lengthwise be done before creating the mirror edges? I am getting confused.
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Colorwave
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2011, 11:15:41 AM »
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If the entire print is off by a given percentage, then the whole image should be scaled.  It would not be particularly noticeable if the edges were not scaled, as they are proportionately much smaller and the variance would be less, but the right way, conceptually, is to transform the whole image. I elongate my gallery wraps on my Z3100s by multiplying by 1.006 and they always come out the perfect length.  Once you figure out your math, I see no reason why one should ever need fractional stretcher bar lengths.
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bill t.
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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2011, 11:16:32 AM »
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So here's a bit of a twist on this subject.  I've started mounting to 3/4 Gatorboard.  Just did a show and found that while my paper prints (Lexjet Metallic) looked great all of my Canvas prints (Hahnemuhle Monet sprayed with EcoPrintshield) has shrunk on the Gatorboard leaving a pretty much even edge gap between the edge of the canvas and the edge of the board.  I use a Drytac cold laminator with the Bestmount adhesive. Bestmount is white so now I have a not dis-pleasing white border around the print. 

I printed and mounted most of these a couple of months ago.

My question, has anyone had a similar experience?  Perhaps I should let my canvases 'age' after coating so that all the the shrinkage has occured?

Bill T. if you see this have you noticed this on your MiracleMuck mounting?

Gary

No haven't seen any creeping shrinkage of the print with glue mounting on Gator.  The problem you are experiencing is a well known issue with adhesives, which are flexible enough to allow  prints to move around in a sort of slow-motion, glacial manner.  For instance, signs that are adhesive mounted to vertical surfaces have a tendency to slide down subtly towards the floor over months and years.  When water based glue dries it's very rigid and prevents further shrinkage of the fabric, but with adhesives any media shrinkage can pull the flexible adhesive with it.  I found this stuff out the hard way working with museum-like exhibitions long ago.

I suppose allowing a very long drying time on the canvas could be of help.  But it should be noted that pressure rollers expand the fabric somewhat during the roll-through, and what you are seeing may simply be the fabric recovering from temporary spreading.

Based on quite a bit of experience I feel very uneasy about using adhesive mounting of any type, for anything other than very short term displays.  And not only is water based glue much more manageable and forgiving, it is a heck of a lot cheaper.

PS, I feel I always need to mention this when recommending glue mounting to Gator.  Just after applying the print, the art package will curve out towards you for several hours, then flatten out perfectly.  This is normal, don't panic, don't try to remove the print, don't try to counter-mount something on the back.  All will be fine and with no pulling in from the edges.
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KenBabcock
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2011, 01:00:31 PM »
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Mike,

Yes, I add to the length of the print before mirroring the image that will be wrapped around the edges.

I believe I did say that earlier, but if I didn't then my apologies.

Ken
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