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Author Topic: GH2, any flawness?  (Read 8751 times)
fredjeang
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« on: May 25, 2011, 12:21:22 PM »
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Hi,

I'm looking for a smaller sensor than the 5D2 for videos with the capability of using the PL mount for certain reasons. The GH2 came naturally in my list.

I've been evaluating the Canon 7D and the Pana GH2.

Well, my conclusion is that in video the Gh2 smokes the 7D without the shade of a doubt.

It's almost sure that I will purchase one or 2 of this tiny camera. It's prety impressive what Panasonic managed to acheive in such a little body.
I normally don't like those kind of devices, too small, miniaturized buttons, not one-button-one-function, plastic body, complicated menus etc...
But the efficiency of the beast compensate IMO largely, specially for the price, those details.

I will mostly use the GH2 with vintage cine lenses without any electronical contact to the body via an adaptor.

I do not have a lot of time now to read reviews but I read quickly the MR evaluations here, where his aclaration about the use with no conected lenses was very helpfull.

My question is aimed to the GH2 users and simple: what kind of downsides globaly can I expect with the GH2 ? (if there are some)
 
It's always nice to hear about users experience.

Thanks a lot.

  

 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 04:59:43 PM by fredjeang » Logged
deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 01:03:02 PM »
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My question is aimed to the GH2 users and simple: what kind of downsides globaly can I expect with the GH2 ? (if there are some)
 
 

battery life, unless you use a rig w/ out of camera power.
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 09:36:57 PM »
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Great little stills camera with good video capability.

NB the order of my reply...
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2011, 09:14:02 PM »
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Chris's video universe is quite large and experienced. I would be interested in having his response reframed within the DSLR universe since that is where many of us are and is the origin of the original post in the thread. Where does the GH-2 stand in the DSLR universe?
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 07:20:16 AM »
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I don't see battery life as a "risk". Perhaps an inconvenience but the behavior is consistent. The biggest problem Ive had is accidentally bumping settings when handling the camera. I'm getting better at glancing at the screen to make sure everything is ok but I don't have that kind of problem with my dslrs. I wouldn't classify this as a design issue necessarily, I think it's more the consequence of the form factor, which is a big reason I bought into the system. But I think something like the canon 'hold down one button to allow changes via other button' In their 1's models might go a long way to reduce settings accidents.
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fredjeang
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 09:40:14 AM »
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Yes, this is sometyhing that pisses me off too. In the end the price to pay for the format. I think it's worth.

To be honest, when I first read the enthousiasm of both Michael and Chris, I was not really convinced because I couldn't figure out how Panasonic did that in such reduced format.
I thought that they were sort of too enthusiastic under the drug of the novelty or had a sweet eye for Pana and very soon they would upload a disclaimer in Lu-La with all the long list of hassles they discovered.
No such thing happened.

Then, more and more infos with footage samples and the unanimity from experienced users, even among Red users etc...pointing that the video capabilities are above what Canon is currently producing made me reconsider my position.

Then, I checked over the internet about how the accessories market was, indeed excellent, as good if not better than Canon, and the hability to access PL mount etc...and more importantly, what those little cameras can produce in terms of imagery really ended to convinced me that Michael and Chris didn't exagerate their first impressions. It really seems that Panasonic did a serious advanced camera for low price.

Now it would be interesting to know after a while in used if this enthousiasm is still strong.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 12:32:44 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 04:49:59 PM »
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Yes, still very strongly positive. The IQ is excellent as Michael showed repeatedly in his San Miguel de Allende photographs. The video quality is indeed excellent but as always with a stills camera, I believe this should be looked on as an important bonus but not the primary value of the camera.

My negatives are slight: poor speed on the 14-140. I would like a 2.8 or faster medium zoom which I believe will be forthcoming.
Awkward interface due mostly to the size; accidental button pushes are very common but I have hardly ever found a setting change due to this and a half press on the shutter release brings things back to the shooting mode. I would like a lock switch to freeze all settings but focus. Yep, that's called Manual Mode but I want to be able to disable all buttons once I am in a shoot-ready mode.

I love the 20mm pancake - a great walkabout lens/camera combo.

I love the DoF of the sensor size - very similar to 35 mm motion picture.

It's a great little camera!



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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 04:57:25 PM »
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Thanks Chris.

Have you tried the camera with full manual lenses, without electronical contacts on the body? I saw a Michael's comment in Lu-La about that and he found a trick.

If anybody can comment on that with the Pana I'd be very thankfull.
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 11:04:15 PM »
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I have a GH-1 that I use with manual Canon FD lenses. You need the proper adapter and then you go into
the menu and select "shoot without lens".

You are then free to use any manual lens you like.

If you are serious about shooting video and are prepared to buy 2 GH-2s ... I would consider spending
just a little more and get something that is purpose built for the job.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/731509-REG/Panasonic_AG_AF100_AG_AF100_Micro_Four_Thirds.html

http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/af100/

At $4700... it gives you the ability to use all the great lenses you want to use... with a lot less fuss. Less Frankenstein
and more Frank Capra  Wink

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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2011, 05:35:59 AM »
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I have used the Voigtlander 25mm 0.95 Nokton since I got the GH2. The handling is slow with manual focus and aperture but the results are excellent. The out-of-focus areas are beautifully smooth - almost creamy. For slower more contemplative photography and video, it is highly recommended.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 12:46:39 PM »
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This is kind of a must read over at Photo Cine News.   http://tiny.cc/t85ib
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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2011, 10:42:56 PM »
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As an alternative to the HDSLR Camera+Rig, you can also try the Panny AF100 or the Sony FS100...The accessorizing costs of an HDSLR setup for professional use is the same as an entry-level prosumer video system. In fact, the running costs of the former in the long term tend to be more under regular use.

Also, the codec from any DSLR is not an accepted format by major networks. I consider them acceptable, but if you're thinking long-term, I would definitely recommend something that has an HD-SDI out, or at least a true 1080p HDMI signal so you can record on to a device such as a Nanoflash.
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bcooter
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2011, 10:05:35 AM »
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I have the GH2 or one of the panasonics with the pancake lens.

It's a nice camera, shoots ok video, not the best at high iso.  It doesn't really focus very well, but it's ok, just not wow.

Yesterday I briefly compared it to the sony nex5 and the difference, other than build quality where sony always wins against virtually any camera, is the menu.

Comparing the menu of the nex vs. the panasonic is like comparing an ipod app to MS Dos.

The Panasonic has the most complicated menu I've ever worked.  In fact even if you work with it for days on end, you never really get the hang of it.

Between the menu and file transfer to a Mac, we just never use the camera, for anything, which is kind of a shame because it's an interesting little camera.

IMO

BC
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2011, 12:44:19 PM »
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...  In fact even if you work with it [the menu] for days on end, you never really get the hang of it.

Between the menu and file transfer to a Mac, we just never use the camera, for anything,...

I agree that the menu system is the most complicated I have ever seen or used - but like many complex things, once you have learned the small subset that is useful to you, it can work - but it is work...

As far as the file transfer, I would also agree. But this is more the fault of AVCHD than the GH2. I have exactly the same slowdown in workflow off the Panny AF100. Compared to Sony's ease of transfer for the XDCam files , AVCHD is a real time waster. Nonetheless I stand by my previous enthusiasm about the GH2. For its size and price there is nothing that comes close.
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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2011, 01:09:42 PM »
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I agree that the menu system is the most complicated I have ever seen or used - but like many complex things, once you have learned the small subset that is useful to you, it can work - but it is work...

As far as the file transfer, I would also agree. But this is more the fault of AVCHD than the GH2. I have exactly the same slowdown in workflow off the Panny AF100. Compared to Sony's ease of transfer for the XDCam files , AVCHD is a real time waster. Nonetheless I stand by my previous enthusiasm about the GH2. For its size and price there is nothing that comes close.

Oh yes! AVCHD...

From the very beginning of this codec I never ended to feel completly convinced for that reason. And editing in this format is just senseless, ocupates too much algorythms for nothing and the slow-down is noticiable. I always do off-line, thank god the procedure in Avid is not painfull at all to transcode all that mess.

Zacuto will release soon their 2011 video tests. http://www.zacuto.com/the-great-camera-shootout-2011 can't wait the video release.

edit: I didn't know the GH1 but it seems that the GH2 is a completly different animal than the 1. The GH1 didn't reach a great reputation in video while the GH2 seems to really impress almost everybody. Actually, some big prods have already used it to film in impossible angles. So, is the GH2 has to be considered as a major upgrade from the #1 way more powerfull in term of video results? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Maybe the current wickness of this little beast is that there are no stocks. I'm trying to buy one here and just can't. If things are going this way it's gona be more difficult to find a 5D2 or a GH2 than an Alexa or en Epic! Tomorrow I think I know where to find the last unit available...let's see if there is luck.

A little fresh summer air for us men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_PrT25o8Vs  thinking of Rob in Mallorca!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 02:53:09 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2011, 02:39:37 PM »
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Fred - I must congratulate you on finding a brilliant way of getting Google to come up with favourable search results!

If you Google Flawness and override the silly correction to flawless, this thread come up number two after the Urban Dictionary :-/
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Christopher Sanderson
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fredjeang
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2011, 02:53:10 PM »
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I think I could ask Michael for a Red Epic gift for that!! Tongue




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bcooter
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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 03:40:00 AM »
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I'm sorry but I can't get past the panasonic menu.   Even with work, it's so unintuitive that you need a laminated card glued to the side to know how to set it up each time.

I also hate the file format and having to try to get it into a mac.  We're used to converting everything to pro rezz, but the panasonic format is just a nightmare.

Now saying that when it works, it shoots a nice file and it's a small easy to use camera, but nobody in our studios wants to learn it and use it. 

Yesterday I was really excited to test and see the new sony NEX cameras.   They're very good and very bad.  No zoom for focus, no peaking, small phone plugs for sound and they just look like . . . video.

Maybe it's because they're in a 60i wrapper, but I kind of think it's just because Sony does good video and knows how to make motion imagery look like  . . . VIDEO.    I just don't like the look.

Today we shot a heavy scheduel with the RED and the 5d.  The 5d when it's on it's really on and almost equals the RED.  When it's off on skintones well, it's really off and like the RED it needs some kind of post processing color to get it right even before we go to dailies, much less to finish.

The RED is a monster, but it works well, if you have a lot of batteries, lots of cf cards and a strong stomach for post production.   Even with the RED Rocket it takes a while to correct and put out dailies and the footage out of the RED is nothing like the monitor.  It's like whatever you set for wb, tint, exposure just kind of goes out the window when you put it in cine-x. 

Right now, our issue is time.  With 5 videos to cut in the next two weeks and a month long project to shoot then cut, well, every step in the workflow chain is something nobody wants to face.

All I can say is video post production is time consuming and one thing ARRI did right was make a camera that shoots stright to proress 422.  That was smart.

Going to bed now.

IMO

BC

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fredjeang
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2011, 04:39:33 AM »
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Right now, our issue is time.  With 5 videos to cut in the next two weeks and a month long project to shoot then cut, well, every step in the workflow chain is something nobody wants to face.

All I can say is video post production is time consuming and one thing ARRI did right was make a camera that shoots stright to proress 422.  That was smart.

Going to bed now.

IMO

BC



Indeed, the Arri PR 422 option was right. Also the camera has one button one function, wich is something I really like and built like a Panzer tank. Don't know about the red camera design itself because I only receive files and never shooted on it. It seems solid and well designed. Raw is a little bit of an adventure to be honest.  Since I switched Avid, things are much more simple and the CineX step is completly useless and the workflow with Red is really good. FCP needs an upgrade now, that's one of the prob. It's a software that wasn't designed for what we have now. Apple need to fix that without delay.

About the GH2, I've also heard a lot of complains about the menu complexity and I don't really like the little buttons. Too miniaturized for my taste. There should be a way to do pre-settings that avoid the mess but it's loosing a lot of time in the userbook. I'm a little bit frighten of the menu with the GH2, but I still think that it is worth what the camera is capable of.

The 5D2 in video is funny. I find that in stills the camera is without surprise, but in video it responds differently. Sometimes it is whao, other time it is beark. What I found, and I don't know if it is just luck or really more profund, is that the results in non-controled light are generally impressives and specially in lowlight. But the results in the plateau never ended to convinced me. With Kinos for ex I don't like it , or don't want to like it whatever the settings are.
On the other hand, I still think that it generally gives a plaisant skin tone right-out-the-box in most of the cases.

What really impressed me with the gh2 is how clean the images are and the almost lack of moire. and, and not less, the incredible amount of lenses, included PL that can be mounted on it.



« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 07:39:58 AM by fredjeang » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2011, 09:25:29 AM »
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... FCP needs an upgrade now, that's one of the prob. It's a software that wasn't designed for what we have now. Apple need to fix that without delay.

Next week?
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Christopher Sanderson
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