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Author Topic: Which medium format solution for me?  (Read 6199 times)
EricWHiss
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2011, 11:18:48 AM »
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Been doing a bit of research into some of the backs mentioned and am just about to send an email to what appears to be the only place that sells sinar in Australia. From what I can see there is only one adapter kit for the 6008 Rollei's, and that is this one:

552.45.043
SB 54M-86H/Rollei 6008 (SB eVolution Adapter Kit)
$ 2,464.00

Not sure which of the backs are compatible with the adapter

Approximately the same as what the camera and lenses will cost me!

By the way, is AU$2600 a reasonable price for the 6008 kit I mentioned above with the 3 zeiss lenses?


I am thinking that buying a used sinar back here may be almost impossible, and would probably have to rely on buying OS from ebay or a forum like LL. Not sure that is a good idea - maybe ok for a hobby, but probably not for business, especially if something goes wrong.

Phase 1 and Hasselblad seem to be best represented here in digital MF.

The price for the camera and lenses sounds good, especially if they are PQ or PQS versions as Graham has already pointed out. It's possible the lenses are older non PQ versions which makes more sense from the price.
As far as the Sinar adapter goes, that seems about 4 times too high for a new one.  I picked up a second hand adapter last year for only a few hundred thinking I'd try to locate one of the Sinar multishot backs.
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JV
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 02:31:37 PM »
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This is for the eVolution series, which you probably don't want to get. Iirc, they must be used tethered and have no LCD screens.

Graham,

Do you have any idea of what the direction of Sinar is for the future?  When I look on the website of the Bron Imaging Group (the distributor of Sinar in the US I believe) they only list the eVOLUTION 75H and 86H digital backs.  The eMOTION digital backs are no longer listed, only the accessories (adapter kits) still seem to be still listed.  It looks like the eVOLUTION digital backs is a product line that might no longer be supported in the future?

Thanks, Joris.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2011, 06:51:49 AM »
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Graham,

Do you have any idea of what the direction of Sinar is for the future?  When I look on the website of the Bron Imaging Group (the distributor of Sinar in the US I believe) they only list the eVOLUTION 75H and 86H digital backs.  The eMOTION digital backs are no longer listed, only the accessories (adapter kits) still seem to be still listed.  It looks like the eVOLUTION digital backs is a product line that might no longer be supported in the future?

Thanks, Joris.

I'm afraid I have no idea about that.
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Geoffreyg
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2011, 06:56:20 AM »
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FWIW, look to Sinar's home page for any indicators. Generally for these small European-centered companies, the US distributors are not a full  indication of their larger plans.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2011, 10:05:22 AM »
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I recently wrote Sinar Bron to inquire about an eSprit back for the Hy6 and was told by Greg King that they were not sold in the US and furthermore are discontinued in Europe as well.  I really liked the idea of a back that would be able to produce an in camera DNG or jpeg even. 
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baudolino
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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2011, 02:29:39 PM »
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I don't think it is a big deal that the eMotion backs don't produce DNGs in-camera. You just copy/move the images from internal storage to the CF card, stick that into a reader, start Captureshop which downloads them all into your Pictures folder, as DNGs - which are immediately editable in LR3 for example (in fact edit very well in LR3....).
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TH_Alpa
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2011, 11:51:57 PM »
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Dear Adam

You have one wonderful guy in Australia, as much in technical knowledge as concerning readiness to help: contact David Kay, the Sinar distributor for Australia. He shall help you out in any situations and give you the best possible advice.

Contacts here:

Email: dkay@bigpond.net.au
T: +61-(0)2-98731579
F: +61-(0)2-98736043
M: +61-(0)4-19259605

www.capturescanprint.com

All the best
Thierry


I am thinking that buying a used sinar back here may be almost impossible, and would probably have to rely on buying OS from ebay or a forum like LL. Not sure that is a good idea - maybe ok for a hobby, but probably not for business, especially if something goes wrong.
 
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JerryReed
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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2011, 05:40:53 AM »
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"...You just copy/move the images from internal storage to the CF card, stick that into a reader."

Is there an advantage to writing files to the internal drive of the SINAR eMotion 75, then transferring the files to a CF card?

Does anyone know what the WRITE speed the Hy6 eMotion 75 can achieve?  Asked another way what speed reading should one purchase a CF card that will accept the design write speed, but not waste money purchasing a CF card with speed faster than can be utilized.

Jerry
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adam z
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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2011, 05:57:47 AM »
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Thanks Thierry

I have already been in contact with David Kay, a google search found his buisiness. He was very helpful, and certainly seemed willing to go out of his way to help out as much as possible. Unfortunately he didn't like my chances of finding the appropriate adapter in Australia. I have decided I am going to hold off for a while on digital medium format. My reasoning is that as I am not a wealthy amateur, instead I am someone hoping to make a living from my photography. In reality and after much consideration and research, I have more important things that I should be spending money on which will pay for itself in a more convincing way. Once more money is coming in, I will look into it again. I think a new monitor so I can actually see accurately what I am working on, as well as lighting gear will improve the quality of my work more significantly than a new camera system.

I will continue to monitor what is happening with medium format, both pricing and the improving technology. My goal is to make the change within 2 years, however a more important goal is to run a financially successful business, not to create more debt.

Thanks for everyone else who has tried to help also.

Cheers

Adam
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2011, 08:56:36 AM »
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Is there an advantage to writing files to the internal drive of the SINAR eMotion 75, then transferring the files to a CF card?

No, it's better to use the CF card, purely for the reason that you have higher storage capacities available. You can shoot to either, and then import the files into eXposure. The result will be the same.
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JerryReed
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« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2011, 09:30:00 AM »
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Graham,

Thank you.  It has been my practice to write to the CF card directly.  Any idea about write speeds?

Jerry
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2011, 10:21:01 AM »
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Graham,

Thank you.  It has been my practice to write to the CF card directly.  Any idea about write speeds?

Jerry

It's not really an issue with an eMotion back, because the internal memory is used as a huge and fast buffer. You can shoot 100 frames as fast as the back will let you, and the back will write these to the card when it can, so a slow card won't slow down the shooting until you have filled up the entire buffer (6GB in e75?).
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2011, 10:32:48 AM »
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I have decided that I want to move from my Canon gear to digital medium format. Here are my reasons for wanting to make the change:

Firstly because I like the look that medium format produces for portraiture (my primary work) due to the larger sensor size.
I also like the smoother tonal transitions and better colour that most backs have
I want to have leaf shutters so I can sync flash outdoors to balance with relatively bright light, I do a lot of environmental portraiture
Larger Dynamic range, and (dependant on back) higher resolution for landscape work (I would like to print a minimum of 16x20 with fine detail in a shot, like a complex landscape etc)
Lastly, the camera itself differentiates me from the millions of DSLR users that my clients see all the time.

I like to work slowly and deliberately, so I do not care if the system is not capable of run and gun type shooting. I also tend to shoot at base ISO for almost all of my work (I have the Canon gear if I need to shoot in low light anyway).

I have no issues with buying second hand.

Hopefully that gives a feel of what my needs are, so what to buy? I do not want to spend more than $15,000 for a body and back and would prefer spending about $10,000. Obviously the cost of lenses is not factored in at this point.

Would I be correct in assuming that my only options for bodies (considering my need for leaf shutter lenses) are, Phase/Mamiya DF or Hasselblad H in auto focus? I assume Mamiya RZ and Hasselblad V are worth considering as manual focus options, but I have my concerns about focusing accuracy with digital backs (probably only a concern for portraits, not the landscape work). I also realize the RZ is lacking in the wide angle department when used with digital.

My initial thought is for a Phase DF body with 55 and 110 LS lenses, plus a wider non LS lens just for landscapes, and a 150 LS when it is available. Not sure which back to get. Phase, Leaf, exact model - obviously I would like the best resolution within my price range.

With the H Hasselblads, which models take 3rd party backs? What are the disadvantages of the older H series apart from lack of TruFocus compared with the H4D. I am aware that some can take film backs which does not interest me, is there anything else to be aware of?

I would love to get a IQ series back once the initial setup pays for itself (unless I get a Hasselblad H series I guess), so am wondering if these are available for Hasselblad V mount or older H series 'blads. Any experience with using Hasselblad V systems or Mamiya RZ (I would go with the Pro II D most likely for ease of use with digital) would be much appreciated.

Are there any other systems I could consider which I have missed?

Thanks in advance.


I would be looking squarely at a P40+ for roughly 13k used or a P65+ at 23 k used and yes get the LS lenses 55, 80 and 110. Not much is going to touch this setup plus you have a very nice upgrade path on a current system of the IQ backs in the future. I owned the P40+ and shot the P65+ many many times and just bought the IQ 160 and its a tremendous choice. They are all the same sensor and its no question one of the latest and best sensors out there. And yes a very biased opinion C1 is the best there is.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 10:34:20 AM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

EricWHiss
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« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2011, 11:21:57 AM »
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I would be looking squarely at a P40+ for roughly 13k used or a P65+ at 23 k used and yes get the LS lenses 55, 80 and 110. Not much is going to touch this setup plus you have a very nice upgrade path on a current system of the IQ backs in the future. I owned the P40+ and shot the P65+ many many times and just bought the IQ 160 and its a tremendous choice. They are all the same sensor and its no question one of the latest and best sensors out there. And yes a very biased opinion C1 is the best there is.

Not me.  If I were buying a 2nd hand Phase back, I'd go for the P45+, and I'd put it on a different camera than the phase mamiya DF that's for sure.     But you can buy a complete Hy6/emotion 75 set up or a AFi-ii 7 kit for the $13k so that makes good sense too.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2011, 12:21:35 PM »
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Not me.  If I were buying a 2nd hand Phase back, I'd go for the P45+, and I'd put it on a different camera than the phase mamiya DF that's for sure.     But you can buy a complete Hy6/emotion 75 set up or a AFi-ii 7 kit for the $13k so that makes good sense too.

As nice as the P45+ is it also has some limits . Not good at all past ISO 200, no sensor plus, more moire. Its basically the same price as a used P40+ and older Kodak sensor which is a nice sensor but the Dalsa is a nicer more neutral , more DR and better color tonal map than the Kodak. The P45+ does and is the long exposure king. Otherwise i would yes look at leaf backs before going anywhere else outside the Phase family. But thats me

The DF is a fine body which soon will be replaced so do you want to buy for the future or buy for the past. By far i would not buy ANYTHING from the past but always a eye to the future and its upgrades, its software and its firmware updates and finally a company that is financially in a good position. And I just did and bought a IQ 160

 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 12:35:03 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

EricWHiss
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« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2011, 12:46:16 PM »
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P45+ has a bigger sensor and a 1.1 crop factor vs 1.3, longer exposure times, larger sensor sites (meaning you can stop down more without noticing diffraction), and I'd be willing to wager has better working DR too or at least the sensor specs show it.  Also I'm still a fan of the kodak sensors over Dalsa, but YMMV.  

Probably if you had never seen an H body or an Hy6/AFi or any modern DSLR, you'd think the DF is a "Fine" body but IMHO that's an extremely generous viewpoint.  Dim viewfinder, no choice of different finders such as WLF or 45 prism, shutter lag, mirror shake are among its worst flaws, and it offers little of the features that the Hy6 does such as focus bracketing, focus trap, rotating sensor, WLF, prisms, etc. The phase mamiya maybe a 'Fine' camera but that's a long way from 'good', 'great', 'superb', or 'advanced'.


« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 12:56:52 PM by EricWHiss » Logged

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JerryReed
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« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2011, 12:55:20 PM »
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I do not have any experience with the Mamiya camera, but I do have the SINAR Hy6, and I have found it to be excellent.  The lenses are great, and the new focusing update is terrific.

Jerry Reed
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2011, 12:57:53 PM »
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I loved my 6008AF and lenses, hard to believe the Hy6 is that much better, but it is!   Smiley
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2011, 01:18:43 PM »
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P45+ has a bigger sensor and a 1.1 crop factor vs 1.3, longer exposure times, larger sensor sites (meaning you can stop down more without noticing diffraction), and I'd be willing to wager has better working DR too or at least the sensor specs show it.  Also I'm still a fan of the kodak sensors over Dalsa, but YMMV.  

Probably if you had never seen an H body or an Hy6/AFi or any modern DSLR, you'd think the DF is a "Fine" body but IMHO that's an extremely generous viewpoint.  Dim viewfinder, no choice of different finders such as WLF or 45 prism, shutter lag, mirror shake are among its worst flaws, and it offers little of the features that the Hy6 does such as focus bracketing, focus trap, rotating sensor, WLF, prisms, etc. The phase mamiya maybe a 'Fine' camera but that's a long way from 'good', 'great', 'superb', or 'advanced'.




Sorry shot the HY6 thought it was a engineers toy not a camera. Eric I have shot everything out there and yes the DF is not what one would call excellent but you are also underestimating it as well. Call it what you will. I have shot 20k images with it and have not thrown it against the wall yet or pissed on it either. But everyone else does that does not own it. I think you need to go shoot a P65+ and compare it against the P45 plus as well and stop wagering or guessing. I own it and its about the best sensor out there or i would not go spend another 23 k to get the 160. But hey to each his own. His money his choice . I made mine with no regrets.

But hey if you want to argue it great, not into it. Have a great day need to get to work
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« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2011, 04:26:08 PM »
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The DF is a fine body which soon will be replaced...

Soon?

It would seem you know something we don't.
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