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Author Topic: Which medium format solution for me?  (Read 7761 times)
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2011, 05:26:00 PM »
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Soon?

It would seem you know something we don't.

Guy is just referencing the public information already posted by Phase that they are working on a successor to the DF body. Which is sort of like saying Microsoft is working on a successor to the current version of Windows: Duh. Every company is always working on the successor to their main products.

But to the point of future investment, if you objectively analyze the market position of the major players I think there is a strong argument that Team Phase One (Phase/Mamiya/Schneider/Leaf/Profoto*) is in one of the best positions if you're looking for a system likely to be supported/developed/expanded in the future.

I'd also pipe in on the DF body to say that it has advantages/disadvantages just like any other body/platform. As one of several examples the DF with a V-Grip Air has a built-in, out of the box, 1/1600th of a second wireless flash sync (when using one of the LS lenses) with Profoto Air lighting - no transmitter sticking off the top of the camera requiring it's own battery.

The variety of glass easily adaptable to the DF is also hard to beat on any other camera. Everything from fisheye, to funhouse plastic lenses, to microscope lenses, to super telephotos, to shift and tilt-shit lenses, to modern Schneider Leaf Shutter lenses. Also the allowance to use inexpensive last generation bodies like the Phase One AF or Mamiya AFD1/2/3 as a backup (don't get on me about reliability - I keep a backup pair of my contact lenses in my laptop case even though I've never had to change my contacts on-the-go; I want a backup of anything important).

The availability of shutter speeds up to 1/4000th (along with flash sync up to 1/1600) is also very important to those who want to shoot outside in bright daylite with fast lenses. I love the Hassy HC 100/2.2 lens and the Phase 150/2.8D lens for fashion/portrait. But I can use the Phase 150/2.8D wide open outside where the 1/800th limit of the H2 keeps me from using the 100/2.2 outdoor wide open. For some kinds of shooters that couldn't matter less; for some it matters a LOT.

The ability to control shutter speed and aperture in C1 is a big deal for a small niche of shooters who would choose a DF over e.g. a H2 body just for this reason alone.

For the record, I think the focus trap and focus bracketing on the Hy6 AFi are fantastic ideas. I really wish that the DF or H system had those features.

Also the Mamiya RZ Pro IID is 100% compatible with all the P/P+/IQ/Aptus-II backs that are M mounts (the DF body is an M mount body). That system has a full range of (very inexpensive due to market forces but still good quality) leaf shutter lenses with a beautiful look and a removable viewfinder, WLF, rotating back. Someone buying a DF/IQ kit can add an RZ with a few lenses for maybe another 15-20% of their kit price. Just take your back off the DF and stick it on the RZ and keep shooting. Now of course that body (like every body) has advantages/disadvantages (e.g. no autofocus being a big one). But in open-platform and fully-supported systems the possibilities are very wide.

For all the forum chatter about removable viewfinders I have had exactly ZERO rentals of our waist level viewfinder on the H bodies we rent (which we rent frequently in Miami in conjunction with Phase backs). In three years. Zero. I'm not saying it doesn't have a use (it's not my cup of tea, but I absolutely understand there are shooting scenarios where it's very nice); I'm just saying it one of those things I see a dichotomy between online and real-world metrics. I hope the next Phase/Mamiya body has a waist level finder - but honestly mostly because I'm tired of hearing about it :-). [joking]

*I put Profoto on the list because of the Air in the V-Grip Air and Profoto Air plug-in for Capture One.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2011, 06:49:52 PM »
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Soon?

It would seem you know something we don't.

Everybody and there brother knows they are working on one. LOL

Just a matter of time and honestly they know they need one. They need to get away from a film based body and from a marketing POF they want to sell more IQ backs this is there answer and they know that. 

From a Phase shooter if there is a week point in the entire system lets be honest this would be first on the list. The backs , software and glass are awesome and every bitch and moan about this system comes squarely at the body. Phase certainly knows this.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2011, 06:52:26 PM »
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tilt-shit lenses, to modern Schneider Leaf Shutter lenses

Doug you need some sleep bud. LOL
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2011, 07:08:43 PM »
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Guy,
Me argue? Never!  Cheesy
I'm just point out facts that you overlooked.  I saw you are involved with the Podas workshops which is a Phaseone sponsored program correct?  Will you get in trouble for saying their camera is only "Fine"?    I've been around the forums for a while and have seen how you spin back and forth on a dime like the way you did with the DMR.  If Phase picked up the Hy6 in a more official way, I wouldn't be surprised to read you posting about how great it is.    But you are correct - the camera does not make the image.  I'm sure the OP can make great images with any of the choices available or platforms discussed.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2011, 07:28:12 PM »
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Guy,
Me argue? Never!  Cheesy
I'm just point out facts that you overlooked.  I saw you are involved with the Podas workshops which is a Phaseone sponsored program correct?  Will you get in trouble for saying their camera is only "Fine"?    I've been around the forums for a while and have seen how you spin back and forth on a dime like the way you did with the DMR.  If Phase picked up the Hy6 in a more official way, I wouldn't be surprised to read you posting about how great it is.    But you are correct - the camera does not make the image.  I'm sure the OP can make great images with any of the choices available or platforms discussed.

 I can't get in trouble for anything I say EVER no one owns me lets make that perfectly clear, PODAS was fun but it was a job just like any other job and I absolutely love to teach people almost more than I like to shoot and even better meet and made some great new friends. Seriously I would never buy a HY6 in any shape or form, it just never fit me at all but many like it and if it fits than that is great. The DMR i loved not sure what spin you got from that , if it was 30 mpx I may still be shooting it. But leica in there infinite wisdom gets rid of the whole R line. And yes I am friends with Leica too. You want a list Arca, Alpa, Cambo I'm friends with all of them. After 35 years I should be just like anyone else. Folks this is not us against them it is a partnership that helps US get better products . The more you are involved the better chance you have them listen and correct there products to be better and end of day its US users that benefit from that. I wish folks would actually understand being part of the industry is a really good thing to do instead of hiding in your studio shooting widgets all day. Get involved help others and the industry.  I know I'm vocal but trust me it helps all of us as I get involved for better products. But you are correct I will flip on a dime if I see a better product that will work better for me. Done it before and will do it again in a heartbeat. No shame in that. I'm looking for the best I can shoot with that fits my style. I like Phase products and recommend them daily to folks looking to buy which that e-mail comes just about every other hour. But I also recommend many other products too. I simply like to help people one reason I'm partners in a forum its there to help people. Just like LL
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 07:31:49 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2011, 07:37:15 PM »
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Guy,
Me argue? Never!  Cheesy
I'm just point out facts that you overlooked.  I saw you are involved with the Podas workshops which is a Phaseone sponsored program correct?  Will you get in trouble for saying their camera is only "Fine"?    I've been around the forums for a while and have seen how you spin back and forth on a dime like the way you did with the DMR.  If Phase picked up the Hy6 in a more official way, I wouldn't be surprised to read you posting about how great it is.    But you are correct - the camera does not make the image.  I'm sure the OP can make great images with any of the choices available or platforms discussed.

BTW if I overlooked something it was not intentional. I do make it a habit of not talking to much in detail on products I am not that familiar with though as that can be misleading which I try very hard not to do. The P45+ is a great back just not sure i would buy that today over the Dalsa sensor that I have been shooting for 18 months and bought the same darn sensor again only bigger. I must like it to buy it twice. LOL

Or i am just nuts, which i would not discount.  Smiley
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KLaban
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« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2011, 02:33:00 AM »
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Guy is just referencing the public information already posted by Phase that they are working on a successor to the DF body.

Yes, the world and his wife are aware of this, and yes, P1 certainly need it.

Again, what caught my eye was "soon"...
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eronald
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« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2011, 03:33:24 AM »
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Guy is just referencing the public information already posted by Phase that they are working on a successor to the DF body. Which is sort of like saying Microsoft is working on a successor to the current version of Windows: Duh. Every company is always working on the successor to their main products.


Yeah, and while Microsoft was developing Vista as a successor to XP Apple made Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard.

To hammer in the nail some more, Microsoft had excellent technology and made Windows Mobile, while Apple made the iPhone - which would you rather use?

Personally, I think photographing with my Mamiya is just about as much fun as using Windows - it mostly works and can be used, and may sometimes be necessary to use, but I wouldn't call it fun. Macs are often fun.

Edmund
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adam z
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« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2011, 11:07:37 AM »
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If Phase can develop a body that fits in the hand like the Pentax 645D and give it a big bright viewfinder, and whatever technical stuff required to get it "good", then it would be about perfect for me. (I haven't shot with a Phase/Mamiya 645 so not 100% sure what my issues would be with it, so won't suggest specifics). In fact, I would be happy enough with the Pentax if it offered new wide, normal and short/medium tele leaf shutter lens with 1/800 sync speed. Unfortunately that is not the case. If it wasn't for the price, I would have considered the Leica S2, but at that price, I prefer the idea of seperate back and body. If the body is as nice to handle as everyone seems to say, why would you want to get rid of it in a few years. It seems a waste to make something of that quality as such a disposable item. The lenses are different as they are obviously a longer term investment - assuming that the S Leicas continue on into the future.

Anyway, like I mentioned in my last post, I will stick with Canon and try and make some money - rather than spending money I don't really have. Hopefully if my business is successful over the next 18-24 months I can invest in some digital medium format gear. Some lighting and essential computer upgrades will be more likely to bring more money in than a new camera.
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