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Author Topic: So what is a decent video cam?  (Read 1907 times)
KevinA
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« on: June 24, 2011, 11:00:21 AM »
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I know very little about video, I will be shooting aerials with a degree of gyro stabilisation, I will also be relying on After Effects stabilisation to get it  creamy smooth (unless you know of better software) . What I do know is I don't want a rolling shutter and I want enough quality so that After Effects can lose some if it needs to work hard. This is an add on to my stills work, so £50k+ cameras are not an option! Where do I need to start looking? Lightweight is also better for the gyros to control.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
fredjeang
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 01:11:32 PM »
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Hi Kevin, personaly I don't find the AE stab efficient. You'd need plug-in. I tried it but never ended to convinced me and I stabilize in Combustion wich is a zillion time better.
But I know there are advanced plug-ins worth for AE. You should try to find info on the good plug-ins available for this task in Adobe's web page.

I'm thinking about the GH2. It has a less strong rolling shutter than other dslrs type and very important, no moiré. up to 60 fps. I just bought one and so far have not shooted with it so won't comment on it. But material abund on the net. Maybe it would work perfectly for your needs in a low budget config.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVsoUTKBUI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO3d6hVYnrk&feature=related
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 05:19:15 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 05:31:22 PM »
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I know nothing of makes or models but suggest that 'global shutter' may be cool to heli work

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
fredjeang
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 05:40:50 PM »
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Yeah, it seems that the tech is going that way. I've seen a rumor that Nikon is buiding an Evil camera with that tech.
I don't know any model in our world either, those are generally industrial devices and aren't cheap.

The solution? put your I.phone on a gyro and get the latest FCP X to stabilize. (just joking, just joking)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 05:46:21 PM by fredjeang » Logged
KevinA
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 06:54:27 PM »
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Hi Kevin, personaly I don't find the AE stab efficient. You'd need plug-in. I tried it but never ended to convinced me and I stabilize in Combustion wich is a zillion time better.
But I know there are advanced plug-ins worth for AE. You should try to find info on the good plug-ins available for this task in Adobe's web page.

I'm thinking about the GH2. It has a less strong rolling shutter than other dslrs type and very important, no moiré. up to 60 fps. I just bought one and so far have not shooted with it so won't comment on it. But material abund on the net. Maybe it would work perfectly for your needs in a low budget config.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVsoUTKBUI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO3d6hVYnrk&feature=related

I am not convinced a rolling shutter will ever work well in the air, I think it increases the effect of any vibration.
That 3 chip Canon XF300 looks like a contender,....... yet more kit to carry and batteries to charge.
I will look at combustion, I experimented with iMovie and AE, AE was was much better and I still have settings to play with. Completely unusable all the same, just shot handheld on a 550D no gyro's.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
fredjeang
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 07:04:41 PM »
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Kevin, don't waiste your time with Combustion. I love it but Autodesk without announced officially is just not developping it any more. It was and still is a fantastic software but it's a dead end. Many user are sad about it because it was an affordable software but with the feature Autodesk is known for in higher-end products and you can tell the difference. very well built. Autodesk now is centered with the Smoke application and Flame suite. I'm using its latest version, the 2008 because it has the best tracker and keyer I've seen so far directly heritated from Flame and a very good color correct. But there won't be further update.

http://www.43rumors.com/5d-and-gh2-rolling-shutter-comparison-slrmagic-and-panasonic-lens-test/
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 07:18:03 PM by fredjeang » Logged
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 01:10:08 AM »
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I think you maybe need to do some tests - maybe with a DSLR or something you own or can borrow

Firstly - stabilsation software - isnt really a solution I guess

the basic premise for this argument is that when there is a jump in the footage there is motion blur

Software cant correct that so even when the footy is stabilised there are artifacts

When shooting from vehicles there are three issues to battle

you might call them 'micro jitter' and 'unstability' and 'subject distortion'

micro jitter is picking up vibration ie frequencies from the prop propellor engine (harmonic vibration)

Unstability is large bumps caused by failure of the camera support system to react to accelleration - eg turbulence or change in direction

There is also jello in the image caused by rapid movement across the image subject - I guess this is not going to be a problem unless you are going really low and fast

In summary what I am saying is that choice of camera may not be the issue but understanding the stabilisation methodology may be

DSLR in motion by me - no stabilisaton in post
Car shooting.. http://www.vimeo.com/25351225
Issues
Hard car mount risk micro jitter
Steadicam is perfect but subject changes of direction**

Plane Shooting  http://www.vimeo.com/10784709
Shoulder mount of the camera isolates the camera from the airframe but is subject to turbulence
Use of the 14mm helps 'turbulence'

Another consideration is the mass of your system - for example a GH2 has low mass compared to a video camera and may enable more ambitious solutions - ie lets say your system has to be rated to 2G the strenght may need to be 16th of the rig to support a 'video' camera

ie a gyro may work far better with a GH2 than a vid camera

Also worth considering is IS/VR lenses which can do great things with certain types of movement - not harmonic vibration but directional change

I think you may not need to worry about the camera or certainly a video camera may not be part of the most affordable solution package
S

** use of steadicam in helicopters is a well known "NO DONT DO IT"
Danfung dennis has done it however (see his afghan work) - using a glidecam - a tiny rig - and got great results




« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 01:32:59 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 01:42:57 AM »
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put more simply - try a GH2 with an IS lens !

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 10:46:33 AM »
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Buy a decent prosumer or professional 1080 3CCD HDV camcorder, used of course. This will be good enough for your work.

Shoot a little 'wider', meaning keeping room on all four sides for the video to move around. In post production, you will need a professional 3D Motion tracker software like the one in Nuke or Boujou, Syntheyes, etc. These are expensive, but they work miracles on most of what you are capable of shooting. AE has a 2D tracker (last I used it), which is not reliable for bad shakes like the ones you get in aerial photography. Hope this helps.
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KevinA
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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2011, 03:02:03 PM »
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Thanks all, i am building a stabilisation rig at the moment with a Kenlab KS 8 and KS 6, if I need to go to a KS 12, then so be it. I have shot a Canon 550D with the KS 8 just screwed to the bottom and  it was crap, unusable in every sense. Even the stable footage suffered from building edges having jaggies. I need a much better solution and I would like slomo to. The screen on the back of the Canon is pretty bad for shooting video as well. Maybe I'm judging the GH2 against the Canon and tarring it with the same brush, but I feel it is a long way off being a solution for shooting video. I am convinced the rolling shutter makes the effect of micro vibration worse.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
bcooter
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2011, 05:35:27 PM »
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If you go to a dedicated 3 chip high def prosumer camera, you'll have smoother imagery, but lose the ability to work in lower light.

Video doesn't rate speed just gain, and with somethng like the Canons axh1 bumping the gain even plus 3 causes a lot of noise, plus 6 is a snow storm.

I'd test them, but I have a feeling the new 1 chip sony's at 60p will be a better option.

But for real slow motion there is no option other than the phantom.

IMO

BC
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