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Author Topic: Daige Laminator for coating canvas fine art prints  (Read 3937 times)
stefano
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« on: June 25, 2011, 02:04:00 PM »
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Greetings all,

I am in the middle of coating a batch of prints with timeless gloss (Using a wagner HVLP). The process I follows seem to work pretty well, but it is time consuming (4 light coats, 20 mins drying between coats).

I have been reading about the Daige liquid laminator, and I am curious to hear from people who use it for coating canvas prints. In particular:

-Does it work with water based laminates like Timeless?
-Is one coat sufficient, or does it require multiple coats?
-Does it coat teh front of the canvas only or both sides? If both sides, how do you dry the prints? It would seem that hanging them could cause the fresh laminate to drip?
-How long does it take to set up and tear down/clean up? How long to coat a print?

Many thanks in advance,

Stefano
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neile
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 06:48:07 PM »
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There are several previous threads in the forum on using them. Here's one: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=40833.0. If you type "Daige" in the search box the others come up pretty easily as well.

Neil
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T_om
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 08:56:26 AM »
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Ike Harris, the owner of the company, is a great guy to work with.  I am sure he will provide you with straight answers if you have any questions about the equipment he sells.

Tom
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langier
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 10:34:15 AM »
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I've run better than 1000 lineal feet and over 300 prints in the past few months using the Daige EZ Laminator...I wasn't looking forward to having to spray all this canvas with an HVLP spray system with booth. I looked into power laminators that generally available were expensive and too small. Rolling was too slow and with the 30x40 and 40x50 canvases that I was going to produce, it was neither efficient to even enough for my project.

So I went to Google, found the Daige site and their video online and it looked promising. I asked my canvas supplier and he had used this with good results. Even at retail, the price was reasonable and on eBay it was even better to I bought one.

Like any new tech, it will take a little practice to get a good coating.

Set up takes about 5 minutes and you'll need a couple of banquet tables, a graduated beaker, a strainer, and plastic to cover your work surface, a lab coat and gloves to protect you and your clothing.

I'm using the ClearStar liquid laminate, a water-based laminate. I found that if I add 20% distilled water, the coating is a little more even, but your results may vary.

The Daige coats both sides (like a flood varnish), but the squeegee keeps the back relatively dry. If you are careful, the surface is pretty even and consistent for about 90-95 percent of my prints. Occasionally, I get a little unevenness and I' use a roller to even it out. For a few, I may need to re-coat to even it out and then I usually just use a foam paint roller with the laminate and keep rolling until it looks pretty even.

I'll coat, lay the print flat on the table and then add a wooden dowel at each end with wooden cloths pins, then hang it up in my garage and a cloths line. They are dry in about 15-20 minutes in the winter and now that it's summer, they dry even faster.

As you coat, you need to keep the tray in the Daige topped off. I usually add laminate after every 10-12 30x40 canvases.

When you print, you need to add 3-4 inches at the leading edge of your canvas and at least an inch at the trailing end for handling. I usually gang up several prints on a page if I'm running less than a single 20x30 on 24 inch canvas.

Basically, it's like a darkroom scene from the cinema, with prints hanging on a cloths line. By using dowels at the top and bottom, the prints hang more flatly and don't curl and then stick to one another before they are dry.

In most cases (unless there is unevenness), one coat is enough.

When I'm done, I simply strain the used laminate back into a clean jug. It takes about 2-2.5 quarts to fill my 50-inch Daige. Cleanup usually takes about 30 minutes. Using the waterbase ClearStar, the cleanup is simply lots of water. The laminate will coat your machine by the end of a couple-hour session and it will look like a candle. The main thing you need clean is the roller and the squeegee. Since mine was second-hand, it took a little more effort the first couple of cleanings to get it pretty well cleaned-up. Now that that is done, clean-up doesn't take quite as long.

Unless I'm coating larger prints or fewer than 3-4 20x30 prints, I'll simply run a foam roller and laminate in a tray and then roll until the coating looks even then hang using the dowels and cloths pins.
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Larry Angier
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a.lorge
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 05:33:07 PM »
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Just to complicate things, have you considered the vinyl laminate vacuum press method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW3cHZp1WY8?  To do it yourself, the initial investment is going to cost a lot more, but if you were to invest in the laminate and the foam blanket, you could probably work out a deal with your local picture framing store to take care of the vacuum press step for a reasonable fee (only takes 5 minutes).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 05:36:06 PM by a.lorge » Logged
Craig Murphy
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011, 11:54:35 AM »
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I had Daige sample coat a couple of 8x10 prints for me and they look very nice.  Concerning laminating.  I have a 40x60 hot press.   Getting laminate on to a print without having it crimp somewhere is not as easy to do as that video leads you to believe.  Could be that the roll of laminate I have has a stickier backing than the one shown making it more difficult.  Its like trying to get contact paper on a flat surface without any bubbles etc.  Also.  The thin foam you have to put over the print is pretty expensive and does not last all that long.  This has been my experience.  Any other laminate experience, tales, or suggestions out there?  Laminate brands/surfaces?   BTW.  Anyone interested in hot presses should keep their eye on the used market in places like www.thegrumble.com  
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 01:13:15 PM by Craig Murphy » Logged

CMurph
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2011, 01:05:40 PM »
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I had Daige sample coat a couple of 8x10 prints for me and they look very nice.  Concerning laminating.  I have a 40x60 hot press.   Getting laminate on to a print without having it crimp somewhere is not as easy to do as that video leads you to believe.  Could be that the roll of laminate I have has a stickier backing than the one shown making it more difficult.  Its like trying to get contact paper on a flat surface without any bubbles etc.  Also.  The thin foam you have to put over the print is pretty expensive and does not last all that long.  This has been my experience.  Any other laminate experience, tales, or suggestions out there?  Laminate brands/surfaces?   BTW.  Anyone interested in hot presses should keep there eye on the used market in places like www.thegrumble.com  

If you have a hot roll laminator,Seals print guard luster or satin matte gives a fantastic finish.
Still can be tricky to lay down but the end results are worth it. No messy clean up either.
I do not use it for canvas I am gallery wrapping but do use it on all canvas flat mounts. Dibond and gatorboard.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 01:08:15 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

stefano
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2011, 10:01:14 AM »
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Thanks all for the replies. I have been doing some more research, and it seems to boil down to a matter of volume. Over this last weekend I had to spray about 70 feet of canvas, and I realized that my largest issue is to have enough space to lay out that much canvas. I have been using large foamcore boards to attach the canvas to for spraying, and quickly ran out of space to let them dry between coats.

This batch was larger than I usually run, but if it continues I'll have to come up with some sort of rack to hold 8 or 10 boards a few inches apart for drying.

I am not ready to go the hot press way, too much investment in money and space, and it would be a long time for a payback. The Daige looks like my next step, but first I will have to reorganize my workshop...

Thanks,

Stefano
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ghaynes754
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 10:54:37 AM »
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Stefano

I tried the Daige but think your results may vary based on the type of canvas you are using.  I used Hahnemuhle Monet which is 100% cotton.  I was using EcoPrint Shield for a coating.  With this combination the edges curled up so badly that the canvas was unusable.  Daige was gracious is taking mine back.  They were somewhat surprised by the results that I got but didn't have a solution.

Maybe langler can update on his combination of canvas and coating.  Think that will make a difference.

You will need a large space for this as langler pointed out.  Also a place to rinse the unit out after you drain it.  A floor drain would be ideal.  Tough to do in a kitchen sink.
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framah
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 12:56:16 PM »
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Actually the heating process takes about 10 to 12 minutes and then it takes another 10 minutes to cool it under weights.
As most framers who have a heat mount press would also be offering the whole laminating process  then why would they do only the pressing and cooling?

Do you take car parts you bought at Pep Boys to your mechanic and ask him to install it as he has the tools to do it and then only expect to be charged for the time to install it?

If you brought in your own roll of laminate for me to apply, you can believe i would be tacking on an extra charge for using your materials... just like a mechanic would do.
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 09:12:11 PM »
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Just coated a bunch of 44x72 canvas prints the last couple of days with my Daige using Clear Star Type CC LL semi-gloss. I add 20% water and it goes on pretty smoothly.

Canvas I'm using is the Fredrix 777.

Because the wide canvas is a bear to handle, my solution for handling is to use a 48 inch wooden dowel attached to the leading edge and on the back-side of the canvas using three wooden cloths pins. (By mounting the dowel on the back, there's less chance of runs with the laminate.) This makes the leading edge a little more ridged and even when I pull the canvas through. I've got the laminator on one table and the second table is offset so I can reach the print. By keeping the canvas rolled, there less chance of picking up debris on the floor and less chance of kinking or other damage.

Once the canvas has been pulled, I lay it on the table and attach another 48 inch dowel to the other end with three cloths pins and then I hang it on my rack, just like the good old days that you see in the movies when they show a darkroom;-)

They usually set in about 15-20 minutes and are dry enough to take down and stack in about 30. There is a little curl but with the dowel on each end, it's pretty minimal. Since this project will be dry mounted on foamboard then framed, it's of little consequence. In today's run, one canvas was run that will be gallery wrapped. Once it was trimmed, no issues with the little edge curling.

Here's a pix of my pulling operation. I can easily run about 20 44x66 inch canvas prints in a single session, about 2 hours from set-up to take-down and clean-up, taking my time.



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Larry Angier
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John Nollendorfs
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2011, 09:44:08 AM »
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Just be carefull not to get drymounting press too hot or the coated canvas can stick to your release (protection) paper. These acrylic coatings don't like a lot of heat!

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ternst
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2011, 05:57:43 AM »
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<<Has anyone definitely tried the Daige EZ Glide with Glamour II and the Lyve canvas made by Breathing Color?>>

This is an older question from another thread that was never answered and I too am wondering if anyone has tried this combo? There are reported issues with other combos using this system (BC with other coatings, Glamour II with other brand canvas), so it would be good to know for sure if the BC products would work together with the Daige. Thanks for any info...
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langier
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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2011, 12:18:57 PM »
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At the start of this project, we decided to push the envelope. We're using a 20x24 inch press and our main concern was that the foamboard would melt. The board we're using has heat-activated adhesive and the specs call for 150-degrees. We ran it at that (didn't want to clean up a big mess) and it works just fine.

Since the board has the adhesive on one side, we have fewer problems then using tissue and that means less work!
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Larry Angier
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ghaynes754
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2011, 01:23:28 PM »
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Larry

Thanks for posting the photos.  The curl on the long edges that you have is nothing compared to what I got with Hahnemuhle Monet which is 100% cotton.  My edges rolled up in about a 1/2 inch diameter and probably 1 1/2 turns.  Tight as could be and dried that way.  Like your idea of the dowel attachment which probably would have helped.

Gary
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