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Author Topic: z3100 Error 02.1.10 - What is the Carriage Assembly stopper?  (Read 5560 times)
William Chitham
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« on: July 05, 2011, 04:37:42 AM »
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My z3100ps has broken down after three and a half years of moderate use. It stopped midway through a print with an error message telling me that the E-G printhead had failed and should be replaced. Inspection of the print showed that it had started printing random blocks of grey/gloss enhancer a few inches into the print which more or less covered the whole print area after about another 6 inches by which time the E-G printhead was putting down so much ink it was puddling and dragging under the carriage. I should say that this was whilst printing a pale blue tone on matte paper so no reason for any ge to be laid down at all.

I shut the printer down to clear up the mess. The printer would not then initialise and showed the 02.1.10 error. I stripped the printer down to see if stray ink in the carriage was causing problems but there was none. The trailing cable appears to be in good condition. I discovered the scan axis belt was worn out so I replaced it and reassembled the printer. It then initialised but did not prompt me to replace the printhead but I did anyway. However when I tried to make a print small rectangles of gray/ge appear randomly over the print area. Subsequently the 02.1.10 error has recurred but not every time I try to start up.

I have run diagnostics on the electronics module, service sation etc without errors but when I try to run the carriage
tests it fails on the ESP (deltaE 92 or some such and can't enable / disable ESP) and I can't complete the other carriage assembly tests. Is there a specific paper I should use for this test? I had a roll of HP every Day Pigment Satin loaded.

One thing I haven't been able to figure out is what is the "Carriage Assembly stopper" that the service manual suggests should be checked following this error?

Is it likely that the PCA on the carriage is defective since two things connected to it, the ESP and the g/e printhead are malfunctioning? I removed and cleaned the encoder strip, then examined it with an eye glass and it looks fine. The encoder sensor also looked ok as far as I could see though I didn't remove it from the carriage. Does the encoder system do anything other than determine the position of the carriage along the scan axis?

Incidently , I couldn't remove the encoder sensor because I couldn't figure out how to disconnect the printhead ribbon cables from the PCA board - there doesn't seem to be any any way to release them. Maybe they have to be unrouted from the carriage and come out with the board?

Any suggestions how to proceed would be gratefully received.

Thanks,

William
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 05:09:02 AM »
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Could there something be wrong with the printed wiring on the ink feeding tubes that goes unnoticed with the checks but shows problems when the tubes flex in use?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

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William Chitham
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 05:22:32 AM »
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Not sure what wiring you are referring to Ernst. As far as I can see there are no wires along the ink supply tubes - do you mean the flat trailing cable that connects to the carriage assembly and rolls back and forth above and behind the drive belt and encoder strip? If so, as far as I can see that is ok but I think my next step might be to replace it anyway since it is the path of communication between the carriage and the rest of the printer.

Thanks,

William.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 06:18:46 AM »
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I think that the grey lines on the tubes have a function next to the flat cable behind the encoder strip area but I could be wrong. Anyway flat cable problems happen with the Canon iPF9000 quite often, the light magenta head then suffering first because its connection in the flat cable wears most.

The EG head on the Z3100 has more than average problems if I count the messages about EG issues.

The encoder strip and sensor probably dictate the head carriage position in printing and for parking, spitting at the left side, picking up the knife. I noticed an issue with the head carriage on my Z3100 where it hit something at the far right side (by the sound of it). I switched the power off and let the printer initialise again and that solved it.
 
Could it be the piece that keeps the carriage fixed when the printer is transported?  I can imagine that there is an error popping up for the user that forgets to remove that part. If your carriage has too much friction while moving it may give that error. Did you oil the axle it runs on? The right tension on the belt you replaced?

I use a matte paper normally, Litho-Realistic but I do not think there is a rule for using a specific paper.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

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William Chitham
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 06:43:13 AM »
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Hmm, I think those grey lines just provide stiffness/springiness to the tubes. They aren't connected to anything at the ends.

The carriage moves very freely and all the diagnostic tests for the scan axis were completed successully.

I'm interested in your comment about the preponderance of EG problems. Working back from the carriage assembly I'm looking at the things that the ESP and the EG printhead have in common and that means the carriage logic board (Carriage PCA) and the trailing cable. The cable is reasonably cheap and prone to mechanical wear so I've ordered a new one which I hope will arrive tomorrow. If that doesn't solve it I think the next step will be to order a preventative maintenance kit: expensive but includes a complete carriage assembly with all the sensors, pca etc, a scan axis motor, drive belts, ink tubes etc etc and even one of the fabled lubrification kits.

William.
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Damir
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 08:35:50 AM »
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I use a matte paper normally, Litho-Realistic but I do not think there is a rule for using a specific paper.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

Off topic

Ernst, you mention Matte Litho Realistic, one of my favorite paper for B&W on Z3100.

In HP desription it is sted: An economical wood-free art paper

From that I got idea that this must be rag paper, but can not find confirmation. DO you have any informatio or idea regarding this?

Best regards

Damir
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 09:07:04 AM »
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Off topic

Ernst, you mention Matte Litho Realistic, one of my favorite paper for B&W on Z3100.

In HP desription it is sted: An economical wood-free art paper

From that I got idea that this must be rag paper, but can not find confirmation. DO you have any informatio or idea regarding this?

Best regards

Damir

Damir,

At best it is an alpha-cellulose paper. I switched from Epson EEM/EAM to the HP Matte Litho-Realistic as it has no FBAs and with a heavier weight it was still cheaper than the EEM. It yellows as much as EEM in sunlight though but can act as a proofing paper for Photorag.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html



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dkressler
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 09:01:04 AM »
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I am having a very similar issue on my z3100. I replaced the belt yesterday, and got stuck on the carriage test for the ESP.  same exact problem - ERROR 58:11 FAIL DeltaE out of limits 92.000 > 8

Only thing is the spectro and everything else was working well before the belt replace and i was exceedingly careful taking out the carriage assembly.  I tried taking the ESP off and cleaning the cover glass which i forgot to do during the belt service. It indeed had a light film of black ink, but did not solve the problem.  Tried disabling the ESP and that failed as well.  I guess i will try reseating the trailing cables next.  If i boot it up normally, all seems fine and it will print normally.  I haven't tried profiling yet.  I was trying to figure out what the carriage stopper was as well.  Does it have something to do with the screw that releases the carriage?

I've never had a problem with the gray head, but i have had constant problems with the red/mk head since the day i got it.  it leaks like crazy.  under my service contract HP never deemed it a problem other than replacing the head a few times under warranty.  I have to scrape gobs of black ink off of the r/mk head at least once a day during a large print run or it builds up to the point of dragging ink on the print.

Love the prints when it's working, but hate the printer and software. first and last HP product.
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William Chitham
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2011, 09:37:42 AM »
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I am having a very similar issue on my z3100. I replaced the belt yesterday, and got stuck on the carriage test for the ESP.  same exact problem - ERROR 58:11 FAIL DeltaE out of limits 92.000 > 8

I've never had a problem with the gray head, but i have had constant problems with the red/mk head since the day i got it.  it leaks like crazy.  under my service contract HP never deemed it a problem other than replacing the head a few times under warranty.  I have to scrape gobs of black ink off of the r/mk head at least once a day during a large print run or it builds up to the point of dragging ink on the print.


I'm interested that you have a chronic leak from one head despite replacements. Does the leak seem to be around the ink supply connection? I can't think of any other cause unless you've been amazingly unkucky and had a series of dud parts.

I had a phone conversation yesterday with HP support and the guy said there is no "carriage assembly stopper" on a z3100, though there is in a 6100 so that looks like an error in the manual. He advised replacing the main carriage pca board. This makes sense to me as 2 systems (one printhead and the ESP) on the carriage are playing up whilst the diagnostic checks run fine on everything else.
The board is not too expensive, my only concern is disconnecting the ribbons to the printhead connectors. They seem to be plugged in to the board very firmly with no release catch that I can see - any advice on these would be most welcome.

I should say I have now replaced the trailing cables and have run out a few prints without problems, however the ESP still fails the diagnostic tests so I'm assuming I have an intermittent fault and will go ahead with the pca replacement.
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dkressler
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2011, 10:02:56 AM »
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the r/mk head always leaks around the nozzles. hard to say where exactly. it just builds up under there quickly.  in the first year before i realized it was leaking it really built up and got quite messy in there. i now clean the service station regularly.  when i first removed the right cover i found the fan totally covered in ink.  it took about an hour and a box of qtips to get it clean.  i thought most 3100's had this problem.  it was suggested that the mk ink has a lot more particulate in it due to being carbon based, therefore not able to evaporate as much as other inks.  it certainly seems that it either is slowly leaking as it sits idle or is shooting too much ink in general - which makes no sense to me since it prints just fine. that printhead slot is always is dirty and i even had a problem on reassembly and had to reseat it a few times.  i discovered this time that cleaning the contacts on the printhead with a vinyl eraser worked very well. i also very lightly hit the contacts in the slot with the smooth side of an emory board, which i assume is similar to the contact cleaning tool hp has but couldn't find to sell me (along with the oil that was discontinued)  i'd say i've been through at least 5 r/mk printheads, and i'm still on my first set of full size ink carts for the most part.

how much is the main carriage pca board?  maybe that would solve my issues with the r/mk head.  i'm hesitant to be throwing good money after bad into this thing. i should have skipped the service contract the first couple years and put the money into a z3100 sick bank instead (or a new printer).  only thing i ever got for my $700/yr was a new starwheel assembly.
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kaelaria
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2011, 01:40:40 PM »
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For those having calibration troubles after reassembly make sure you have fully assembled the printer and are not shining lights down inside.  The dark glass cover is there for a reason.
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William Chitham
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2011, 03:31:36 PM »
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The carriage pca, part no: Q5669-60682, is listed here on the HP parts store at 66.82: http://tinyurl.com/672mtno

Regarding light levels whilst testing the esp, no I haven't reassembled all the covers and I ran the test with the printer in daylight. Is it likely this could produce such a big error? I'll not have a chance to try retesting before Tuesday but then I'll try testing with the covers back on.
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kaelaria
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2011, 03:33:55 PM »
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Yes it is likely.  I'm shocked how many people create problems by just not following the instructions...nothing personal, I just don't get it.  I have talked to 4 different people that have broke parts by going off the reservation, and you are the third I know of that has tried testing not assembled.

The sensors depend on specific light levels.  DARK.
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William Chitham
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2011, 04:10:21 AM »
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Well I re-ran the test in the dark and still no joy. Before the calibration test there is an enable/disable step and it fails at this step as well with a 58.11 code - "colour sensor - Reseat/Reconnect/Clean/Adjust (manually)". If I side step this test by cancelling the enable/disable it performs the calibration check with the error "delta E out of limits 92.000>8"; I'm no great expert but I've been making profiles long enough to know that this is a huge error, an order of magnitude greater than anything you'd get when measuring a target normally, all of which suggests that either the esp or the pca is goosed. The new pca is on order so hopefully I'll soon know which.
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catlauren
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 02:19:55 PM »
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William,  Have you resolved this problem yet? I have what appears to be the same problem with the MK/red printhead.  Please share the latest things you have tried and whether or not they have worked.  I am desperate!
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William Chitham
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 03:58:19 AM »
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Yes and no and apologies for not posting the last chapter in my saga.
My printer is now working fine, touch wood, after the following steps:
1. Replaced the carriage drive belt and repaired a broken component in the star wheel assembly lifter (coincidental - not related to the original problem but discovered faults when I started dismantling).
2. Replaced the trailing cable - I think this solved the problem as the printer worked following replacement BUT still failed the carriage diagnostic checks, notably the colour sensor (ESP) so...
3. I dismantled the carriage, cleaned the printhead connectors and replaced the carriage pca after which it STILL couldn't pass the ESP/carriage tests but was working ok so I gave up and got on with some printing. I posted some photos and tips on replacing the carriage PCA on the wiki site here: http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/Maintenance+Tips
So in my case it was the trailing cable what done it, hope that helps. I would dearly love to know why the diagnostics don't work though - if anyone out there has an early z3100ps 2007/8 vintage in good working order I wonder if they could run the carriage/ESP tests as per the service manual and post the results?
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davidh202
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2011, 03:41:56 PM »
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William,
is it possible the error code  just resides in memory, and there is some way to clear or reset it?
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William Chitham
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2011, 03:52:15 AM »
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William,
is it possible the error code  just resides in memory, and there is some way to clear or reset it?

Perhaps but if so I think it's a bug - I've seen no reference to it or any way of clearing it. I have two theories to explain my machine's inability to run the diagnostic checks: either another component is faulty, or there are bugs in the tests - maybe to do with firmware updates? That's why I'd like to know if anyone with a known "healthy" z3100 is able to run the tests successfully.
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Andreas Hablutzel
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2011, 08:22:50 AM »
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 William,

I have been following this thread with interest, as I have also just replaced the belt after three years of light use. The printer probably has no more than 150 prints run through it. I received the exact same 58:11 error as several other people have reported. The manual obviously indicates some problem with the ESP (reseat/reconnect/clean/adjust). I was mystified since I found at least four other references online to the exact problem after the belt had been replaced, so I assumed it to be unlikely that that the ESP had failed, unless everybody broke it in the same manner when replacing the carriage assembly.

I tore down the printer a second time, and took out the ESP. Looked brand new, almost no ink overspray at all, even on the mirror cover. I cleaned the cover and surrounding areas and checked the condition of the sensor, it looked normal. I replaced everything and booted up, then received the exact same error message again.

I then called tech support, and was willing to spend $39.95 to get a useful answer. Had to insist on higher level tech support as the first two people just told me to replace the color sensor if I got the 58:11 error code. Makes no sense since 58:10 would indicate replacement necessary.

Finally got "Joe", a senior support person who told me free of charge ' this is a one time exception because this is information that we usually only give to technicians...'  that since I was not a qualified service technician it is very possible that I broke something when replacing the carriage assembly. ( I did in fact break something- the so called rear carriage bushing- a small piece of plastic at the top rear of the carriage assembly, which is easy to do when replacing the carriage assembly since it needs to be slid in very carefully to clear the bar at the top otherwise it will simply snap in two. I superglued it back together until I can get a replacement. I'm pretty sure that this has little to do with the ESP sensor though- but one never knows)

Anyway he then proceeded to tell me that it is possible that the mirror lens did not open and shut properly, and this might be causing the test to fail. I told him the mirror was in fact opening and shutting properly.  He then asked whether I had gotten to the stage in the test where the colored lights were shining onto the paper, and I replied, no only the white light. This indicated to him that the ESP might be damaged- or, and this is the important part- that the belt tension might be too tight, thus causing the carriage assembly to have lifted higher than normal. This might be the cause of the delta E 92 greater than 8 error. I still don't understand the logic exactly other than the fact that the higher the carriage assembly- the further away the lens is from the paper- thus the higher number perhaps? but it seems to indicate that perhaps everyone who replaced the belt as a user without the service technicians' knowledge might be missing a few important adjustments!  My next step is to check the belt tension and loosen it. Right now when I replaced the belt I fully tightened the bolt which attached the belt tensioner to the printer, perhaps loosening this will change the height of the carriage assembly thus letting the sensor see the paper better?

I am simply not quite ready to believe that the ESP, which was working perfectly fine when I took the printer apart, is now broken. I was quite careful when reassembling the carriage assembly (for the most part!) but Joe did mention that the ESP was very delicate and could easily be damaged.

Does anyone else have any information about the proper tension on the belt tensioner, whether it needs to be fully tightened or perhaps only partially? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,

Andreas
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tonywong
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« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2011, 12:34:19 PM »
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Watching this thread for some answers to the color sensor issue. I replaced the formatter board (the hard disk really) and the ESP didn't pass, although I never was able to check it before the board replacement (printer never could boot up when the disk crapped out).
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