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Author Topic: MAC OSx Lion and printers  (Read 28118 times)
elolaugesen
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« on: July 05, 2011, 06:33:17 AM »
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With the introduction of OSX 7 Lion  Apple is dropping  Rosetta (the emulation mode program for PowerPC code)  and I have found so far that on my Epson 3800 some of the support code is PowerPC code only.  The utilities in the LFP Remote panel is an example.  An Epson support person said we just have to stay on Snow Leopard if we need to use the code.  It can also be done with the panel on the printer but it is an example of what we will be up against again.  I am not sure of firmware upgrades but then who expects one.

I would check all  production programs/code needed for printing before converting. you can do a basic check by going into About this Mac - then More Info -  Then go down to software - select applications.   wait and wait and wait while it checks all your apps.... look in the column "Kind"  click on it and all the apps will be sorted by kind   then scroll down and all apps still with Power Pc code will show up...      

I do not know about 3880 and all the others nor anything about HP or Canon printers...

good luck

cheers elo  (if I am wrong please let me know - Epson Agreed with me)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 07:46:31 AM by elolaugesen » Logged
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 06:53:33 AM »
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With the introduction of OSX 7 Lion  Apple is dropping  Rosetta (the emulation mode program for PowerPC code)  and I have found so far that on my Epson 3800 some of the support code is PowerPC code only.  The utilities in the LFP Remote panel is an example.  An Epson support person said we just have to stay on Snow Leopard if we need to use the code.  It can also be done with the panel on the printer but it is an example of what we will be up against again.  I am not sure of firmware upgrades but then who expects one.

I would check all  production programs/code needed for printing before converting. you can do a basic check by going into About this Mac - then More Info -  Then go down to software - select applications.   wait and wait and wait while it checks all your apps.... look in the column "Kind"  click on it and all the apps will be sorted by kind   then scroll down and all apps still with Power Pc code will show up...     

I do not know about 3880 and all the others nor anything about HP or Canon printers...

good luck

cheers elo  (if I am wrong please let me know - Epson Agreed with me)


I think you are raising an important generic issue that goes beyond printer software. There is other software that will face the same issues - or rather their users will. Apple has given software developers fair notice that Rosetta is disappearing, but recoding applications to be usable on the new version of the platform can be a time-consuming and costly undertaking, so it best for those of us contemplating an up-grade to be very careful about what functionality we may lose - or in the best of all worlds, what would be the correct time to upgrade in sync with the adaptation of the other affected software we are using. I think it would be highly irresponsible of any major software provider not to be fully functional on Mac OSX 7.0 within at most several months after its release, and Snow Leopard works well enough, so I'll take my time.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mfryd
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 10:05:34 AM »
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With the introduction of OSX 7 Lion  Apple is dropping  Rosetta (the emulation mode program for PowerPC code) ...

Although this is widely believed to be true, is there any official word from Apple that indicates that Rosetta will not be supported in Lion?

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elolaugesen
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 11:12:10 AM »
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All the test versions of Lion appear not to have been shipped with Rosetta!!!!!

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/13/os-x-lion-to-drop-rosetta-support-for-powerpc-applications/

It would seem rather silly to send out versions to all developers to test all the various scenarious and then include it in its final release without testing Rosetta

I for one have a couple of other tools that will no longer work...  AppleWorks still use it for a few things and old files that have been around for many many many years...Filemaker,  Quicken....

hope myself it is not going to happen...    but..
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 11:13:31 AM »
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Although this is widely believed to be true, is there any official word from Apple that indicates that Rosetta will not be supported in Lion?



http://www.google.ca/search?q=rosetta+in+Mac+Lion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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francois
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 11:47:17 AM »
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All the test versions of Lion appear not to have been shipped with Rosetta!!!!!

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/13/os-x-lion-to-drop-rosetta-support-for-powerpc-applications/

It would seem rather silly to send out versions to all developers to test all the various scenarious and then include it in its final release without testing Rosetta

I for one have a couple of other tools that will no longer work...  AppleWorks still use it for a few things and old files that have been around for many many many years...Filemaker,  Quicken....

hope myself it is not going to happen...    but..
Rosetta is not included with Mac OS X 10.7 and there's no way to install it. An alternative solution would be to run Mac OS X 10.6 in a virtual machine (Virtual Box is free) and it looks like Apple is allowing to run a virtualized copy of Mac OS X.
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Francois
elolaugesen
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 12:12:16 PM »
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Hi.   Yes    I am aware of virtual machines.    Installed the first one in 1975/6 when Ibm Released VM360...  had Large IBM Main Frames running them for years....

I currently have copies of OSX 10.5.6 , 10.6.8 all set up to run compatible apps...   also have my G4 powerbook ready to run Classic if needed....

there are always workarounds.     but all so cumbersome.....   Virtual Machines are definitely the way to go as apple keeps moving ahead faster and faster

The real issue for me ---- it is costly to keep buying new software to keep up for the occasional use  .... 


cheers   elo
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francois
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2011, 12:36:31 PM »
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…there are always workarounds.     but all so cumbersome.....   Virtual Machines are definitely the way to go as apple keeps moving ahead faster and faster
Agreed 100%
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Francois
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2011, 12:59:14 PM »
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All of the links seem to be speculation.

Any developer who has Lion, is under non-disclosure.

I'm just trying to figure out when (or even if) Apple has made any sort of official announcement.

Although the rumors may be correct, Apple has surprised us before.  Even when the rumor mill completely agrees on a prediction, it does not always come to pass.


I have trouble imagining that Apple would discontinue widely relied upon software (Rosetta) without any sort of official prior warning.

Now don't go mentioning the replacement of Final Cut Pro with a similarly named, but incompatible, replacement product.  Final Cut is aimed at professionals who depend on their Mac for their lively hood.  This is not Apple's target market.

Rosetta is used by the general public.  This is the market that Apple wants.


Discontinuing Rosetta without a prior announcement is like Apple telling its customers "F**k you."

If Apple really intends to discontinue Rosetta, there must be notice somewhere in their "roadmap" of what consumers should expect in the future.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2011, 01:16:05 PM »
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Just because you may have trouble imagining, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. You are best advised to believe it until any evidence to the contrary comes to the surface. I can't say more than that.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mfryd
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2011, 01:33:24 PM »
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Just because you may have trouble imagining, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. You are best advised to believe it until any evidence to the contrary comes to the surface. I can't say more than that.

I'm just trying to track down the official Apple announcement.

I'm sort of getting tired of Apple pulling the rug out from under me without any warning.

Unfortunately, Apple's behavior seems to make Windows look better and better.  If Rosetta goes, my best path seems to migrate my PPC software to the Windows equivalent (Quicken and GoLive CS2).  Thankfully, Windows still supports old software.  I am not looking forward to the day when I need Windows to run the majority of my software.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 01:37:35 PM »
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I agree with you that Microsoft has a pretty good track record with backward compatibility. But there are other aspects of using Windows that one would prefer to not have to deal with if at all possible.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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mfryd
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 01:42:33 PM »
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I agree with you that Microsoft has a pretty good track record with backward compatibility. But there are other aspects of using Windows that one would prefer to not have to deal with if at all possible.

I 100% agree.  My preference is to use a Mac.  But I need to look at the big picture.  If Apple ceases support for old hardware and software, I am left in a bind.  I can keep an old computer around, but when it does, a new Mac won't run the old software.   I currently have 10 years worth of Quicken data that I don't want to lose.  It appears that my best bet is to get Quicken for Windows.  I have some web projects in GoLive CS2.  Again my best bet is to get the Windows version.   

I won't be happy using Windows, but I don't see a choice if Rosetta goes away.

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Randy Carone
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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 01:51:11 PM »
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I am a Windows user with little Mac experience. Wouldn't an Intel Mac with Windows OS installed be the 'least painful' way for Mac users to move on and be able to run things like Quicken, color management, profiling and printer drivers? I have considered moving to a Mac, but with no problems at all with Microsoft, I think I'll stay with Windows.
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Randy Carone
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 02:36:23 PM »
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I am a Windows user with little Mac experience. Wouldn't an Intel Mac with Windows OS installed be the 'least painful' way for Mac users to move on and be able to run things like Quicken, color management, profiling and printer drivers? I have considered moving to a Mac, but with no problems at all with Microsoft, I think I'll stay with Windows.

Yes, an Intel Mac can run Windows just fine.  You have the option of installing Windows on a separate partition and having a dual boot system and/or running Windows in a virtual machine.

As the Mac doesn't come with Windows, you need to purchase a copy of Windows.  If you want the virtual machine solution, you also need to purchase the virtual machine software.

If you are running both Mac and Windows, you need to maintain both.  You need to keep your Windows OS up to date, and keep your Mac OS up to date.  Obviously more work then only maintaining one or the other.  A disadvantage of the Mac is that you don't get as many choices for your hardware configuration.  Although the Mac hardware is quality stuff, and reasonably priced compared to a similarly configured Dell, you are stuck with three choice of desktop: Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro.  If you are only running Windows you have many more hardware options available.

Although I have not tested this, I believe that color management would be problematic printing from the Mac side to a Windows printer driver, or from the Windows side to a Mac printer driver.  I would suggest installing a Windows driver for printing from Windows and a Mac driver for printing from the Mac.   if you have an older printer, you may have a hard time finding a good Mac printer driver, and may need to print from the Windows side, or invest in third party software.
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JohnHeerema
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« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2011, 07:55:52 PM »
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Quote
Although I have not tested this, I believe that color management would be problematic printing from the Mac side to a Windows printer driver, or from the Windows side to a Mac printer driver.  I would suggest installing a Windows driver for printing from Windows and a Mac driver for printing from the Mac.

You are absolutely correct. If you run a virtual Windows machine on a Mac (either through boot camp, or as a virtual machine), colour management is handled via Windows, and uses the Windows drivers. However, if you are sharing a Mac printer with your virtual machine, and print to it from the Windows VM, I think that you would need to be careful about colour management.
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John.Murray
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« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2011, 10:14:56 PM »
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Printing to a printer share, regardless of platform is no problem - in any case you are disabling all color management by the printer anyway.  I've been using Oracles' free Virtual Box to host everything from OS X Leopard Server to Windows Server 2008r2 Domain Controllers on my Mac (curiously Windows 7 XP-Mode *cannot* host a 64bit O/S) - with USB device support - highly recommended.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 10:16:27 PM by John.Murray » Logged

kikashi
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2011, 02:17:03 AM »
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I'm just trying to track down the official Apple announcement.

I'm sort of getting tired of Apple pulling the rug out from under me without any warning.
Apple's behaviour has often irritated me as well, but that's hardly fair. We've all known since it was first introduced that Rosetta was a bridging measure, just as was Classic, and that, like Classic, it was going to disappear at some point. Nobody has pulled any rug from anyone: you're not forced to upgrade to Lion. It's for you to balance any potential benefits (of which those of us who don't have privileged access are, as yet, largely ignorant) with any disadvantages, such as being unable to run PPC software.

If previous experience is any guide, essential software for which Lion is a requirement will take a while to arrive and in the meantime there will be little downside to continuing to run Snow Leopard or even, as I still use on an old PPC-based tower, Leopard.

Jeremy
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David Watson
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2011, 02:36:28 AM »
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As a former owner of two companies in the small computer business I can tell you from long and bitter experience that it is always a mistake to be an early adopter of an OS upgrade and this is just as true for Windows as it is for Mac. The most important aspect of using a computer as a tool (rather than a software development machine) is that it runs reliably and quickly enough to the job.  Only when applications start to demand an OS upgrade to continue functioning should one consider it.  We have quite a few Macs and have only recently upgraded them all to Snow Leopard.  We have no intention of moving to Lion until printer drivers and graphic arts applications like Quark and CS5 demand it. 

In addition to the possibility of applications and device drivers not functioning or at least not functioning correctly there is also the issue of possibly having to update printer and paper profiles as well.

In short if it ain't broke don't fix it!
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David Watson ARPS
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2011, 04:45:45 AM »
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I'm just trying to track down the official Apple announcement.

I believe that, in a reply to an e-mail, S. Jobs acknowledged the fact that Rosetta will be history when Lion ships. In the WWDC 2011 keynote video, available on Apple website to developers & non-developers, Rosetta is not mentioned as part of Lion so draw your conclusions. FWIW, I (and nobody except those involved in the decision) don't know whether Rosetta's absence is due to engineering, commercial or licensing issue.

Meanwhile, those interested in virtualizing Snow Leopard on Lion car read this article: http://tinyurl.com/6jsz4as

My personal experiences with Virtual Box are very positive and inline with John's comments above.

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Francois
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