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Author Topic: Print Module - why doesn't cell size equal paper size?  (Read 3144 times)
myc5
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« on: July 25, 2011, 11:30:48 PM »
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I have an Epson 3880 with WinXP and LR 3.4.1.

I want to better understand the cell size & margins concepts.

I'm printing a single image on a single sheet of paper. I'm using different paper sizes but I'll use 5x7 for illustration purposes.

I have the borderless option in the epson driver unchecked. I have "Zoom to fit" in LR unchecked.

I do want a white border around my image, but I want the border to be equal size on all sides, so I crop the image appropriately in order to get.  Figuring out the right crop aspect is challenging due to the bizarre cell size.

When I choose 5x7 paper size in Page Setup, the largest cell size I can get is 4.75 x 6.76 and minimum margin of .11 for Left/Right/Top but Bottom is .12. Why not .11 all the way around?

Why isn't the cell size 5x7?

I'm not understanding the purpose of cell size. Switching ruler units to millimeters, doesn't help either.
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howardm
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 11:37:11 AM »
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The single image on a single sheet is the simplest case.  You can have multiple 'cells' on a page and each cell will receive an image.  In this case, it's sized to accommodate the max image size for the paper/printer (since the printer requires a margin in all non-borderless cases).
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sunnycal
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 12:18:34 PM »
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I consider it a major drawback of Print module that I can not dynamically adjust picture crop in the print module. Jumping back and forth between develop and print module to crop and check the fit, is a drag on workflow.

That said, I think what you should do is adjust the cell size. Your margins are not equal most likely because printer does not have equal margins on all sides (I don't have 3xxx series but on larger printers this inequality is more significant). If you can not have .11 margins on all side, make it .12 on all sides, or .25 on all sides (whatever your choice).

Once you are satisfied by cell size and its placement, then you can begin the task of cropping the image to fit in the cell. Remember that you can click-and drag the image within cell to adjust the image view.

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CASpyr
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2011, 03:47:11 AM »
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I have struggled with the same phenomenon without having found a solution so far.
I'm on a Win7 64-bit system, LR 3.4.1 and a HP B9180.
I'm currently resorting to manually adjust all margins to the widest one given by LR.
It seems strange that one margin has a more restricted adjustability than the other three, given the fact that there is borderless printing.
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Christian Spyr
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2011, 04:29:27 AM »
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I consider it a major drawback of Print module that I can not dynamically adjust picture crop in the print module. Jumping back and forth between develop and print module to crop and check the fit, is a drag on workflow.
Then, why not just check "zoom to fill" and adjust the framing with the freehand tool (mouse drag)?
The crop is remembered for the next time you go to print module with that photo (and print template) selected.

Quote
Your margins are not equal most likely because printer does not have equal margins on all sides

Yes indeed.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 06:07:39 AM »
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Just a quick point, the paper size in Page Setup refers to the paper size in the printer - not the final image size.  So for instance I regularly print two 5x7" prints on a single sheet of A4 paper.  Choose A4 in the page setup and an A4 shape and size sheet will appear.  You can then choose how many and what size cells you want. In this instance choose two rows and one column, then adjust the size to 7x5.  You can save this as a template too which saves having to go through the whole procedure each time you want to print.  I have dozens of templates set up and so can print images very quickly.  Like anything in Lightroom it takes a while to get familiar with the controls, but I rarely print anything in any other way now.

Good luck!

Jim

PS, my printer (Canon 6100) will not accept paper smaller than A4, and I never print borderless.  I trim prints afterwards.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2011, 09:26:17 AM »
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Just a quick point, the paper size in Page Setup refers to the paper size in the printer - not the final image size. 

Exactly and cause for confusion for so many. The cell size can’t be larger than the paper size (duh). And if the current page setup doesn’t support say borderless printing, and LR knows this, then you can’t have a cell that is the size of the defined paper. And the image crop is a different parameter than the cell size so there can and often is a disconnect.
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Andrew Rodney
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sunnycal
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2011, 04:32:44 PM »
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Then, why not just check "zoom to fill" and adjust the framing with the freehand tool (mouse drag)?
The crop is remembered for the next time you go to print module with that photo (and print template) selected.


I don't think that what you are suggesting will do what I want to do. What I want to do is select an area of picture to be printed (in print module), and then have LR scale the picture to cell size.

In other words, LR only allows two levels of zoom, fit image to cell or fill cell. I would like to be able to specify the level of zoom.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 10:37:22 PM by sunnycal » Logged

Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 08:52:00 AM »
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I think you need to play around a bit.  It only zooms in to fit the longest dimension.  Surely you want to decide on a crop, which is done in Develop, then print it to that shape.  Don't you?
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sunnycal
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2011, 01:37:08 PM »
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I think you need to play around a bit.  It only zooms in to fit the longest dimension.  Surely you want to decide on a crop, which is done in Develop, then print it to that shape.  Don't you?

Play is what I do and this is what I mentioned in my original email, I go back and forth between print and develop module.

I print the same picture on different size paper and with different aspects so it is a lot of switching back and forth. It will be much easier if I could do it right in print module.
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Jim Pascoe
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2011, 03:30:16 AM »
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There are a lot of sliders and settings in the print module and bringing in the tools from other modules would surely just add extra complexity.  When in the print module just hit the 'R' key and you immediately go into crop mode.  Then just hit Command P (Mac) and you are right back in the Print mode.  Personally, and I do a huge amount of printing in Lightroom, I think the layout is about right.  The problem is that no piece of software is going to suit everyones workflow exactly but I think Lightroom does a very good job if you use it enough to become familiar with it.  I still find new ways of doing things most weeks in LR, but I am a slow learner and find that I need to get very familiar with some aspects before trying to learn and remember something new. Keyboard shortcuts save a lot of time, and if you use say a Wacom graphics tablet and programme the buttons on it, you can use LR so easily and quickly.

By the way, you can do everything in Photoshop in one workspace, but look how complicated the interface is on that!

Jim
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dmward
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2011, 09:01:06 AM »
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Another option, which I often use, is to make virtual copies once the image is set for printing and crop them to the different aspect ratios I think are most likely for prints. Then just select the appropriate aspect ratio. And as someone has already pointed out, have a variety of preset layouts.
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 08:02:18 AM »
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I don't think that what you are suggesting will do what I want to do. What I want to do is select an area of picture to be printed (in print module), and then have LR scale the picture to cell size.

In other words, LR only allows two levels of zoom, fit image to cell or fill cell. I would like to be able to specify the level of zoom.

It shouldn't be that difficult.  Use a custom crop in the Develop module to crop to the aspect ratio of the paper or cell size you want to use.  Adjust the size of the cell in the print module and you're done.  The image will always zoom to fit the cell size and adjusting the cell size gives you a custom zoom.  If you print with different aspect ratios, you can save those as Snapshots or as virtual copies.  It might take a little bit of time in the Develop module but it certainly shouldn't slow down a workflow that much. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 08:04:39 AM by BobFisher » Logged
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