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Author Topic: iSis or i1iO?  (Read 3429 times)
aaronchan
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« on: July 27, 2011, 07:44:18 PM »
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Dear all,

I run a inkjet photo lab. I got 4 different printers and tons of different media type since I do a lot of custom made jobs for different media artists.
I own a i1Pro UV. At the beginning of my business, it works pretty well.
But since last month, I start to have a lot more jobs coming in which requires me to made a lot of ICC profiles.
i1pro start to slow me down and I also losing patient on scanning 3000 patches one by one.

I think it is time for me to get something autobot to do the scanning job, also increase the consistency and the accuracy.

So, my question is:
Should I get the iSis because of it's OBC compensation and Dual scan feature?
Or should I get the i1iO because I've already have the i1Pro and I might not need the features on iSis?

One more thing that I don't know, what's the speed on both of them?

Thanks & Regard,
Aaron
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 07:47:43 PM »
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So, my question is:
Should I get the iSis because of it's OBC compensation and Dual scan feature?

Short answer, yes, absolutely.

Quote
Or should I get the i1iO because I've already have the i1Pro and I might not need the features on iSis?

If you can afford an iSis, that’s the way to go. Its a much better solution.
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Andrew Rodney
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terrywyse
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 08:58:25 PM »
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Ditto what Andrew said....

1) The iSis is WAY more repeatable than an i1iO...try measuring a chart using an iO and then rotate it and measure again and then compare dE's. iSis repeatability is generally <0.10 dE in my experience.
2) iSis offers both UV-include and UV-exclude....to do that with the iO requires two different i1 spectro heads.
3) iSis can handle fairly thick material....the iO can handle thicker but the iSis still does pretty well.
4) The iSis can handle nearly 3,000 patches on a single page (iSisXL) due to both small patch size (6x6mm) and lack of patch separators/gaps. I routinely use nearly 6,000 patches in i1Profiler with the iSisXL and it's no big deal.
5) I don't know of any historical data on this...but I can imagine that the LED illumination in the iSis will out-last the tungsten halogen bulb in the i1.

My personal experience with both instruments weighs heavily in favor of the iSis....obviously.

Terry
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Terry Wyse, WyseConsul
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aaronchan
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 10:15:32 PM »
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Thanks for both of you.
I think I have the answer in my mind.
The only thing is I don't think I can afford the XL, it's a thousand plus more than the small version.
My partners might not want to spend this kind of money if they both do the same thing besides the size factor.

But of cuz, personally I would like to have a big one  Grin
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 09:22:59 AM »
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Ditto on the remarks about the iSis - great forward thinking machine. Plus, the combination of having an iSis and an EyeOnePro is a powerful, do-anything combination. The iO is a pain that's really best for UV curable shops that are regularly printing on super thick materials that only an iO can handle.
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 04:37:25 AM »
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iSis for me - I've both, and much as the robot arm never ceases to fascinate me when its scanning, I only use it for thicker media that the iSis has problems with.

It's more accurate too.

I'm lucky enough to have the A3 version and tend to use A3 sheets with 2948 patches on a single sheet for RGB
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PhilipCummins
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2011, 08:44:04 PM »
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5) I don't know of any historical data on this...but I can imagine that the LED illumination in the iSis will out-last the tungsten halogen bulb in the i1.

I'd second that. LED's should have easily over 10,000 hours of life vs tungsten of 1,000 - 4,000 hours. I'd imagine there's quite a bit of wear and tear on the i1's tungsten bulb over the life from the on/off activations (particularly in spot mode).
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eronald
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2011, 02:44:04 PM »
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There's one other meaningful choice and that is the Barbieri LFP. An excellent instrument, which can do practically anything imaginable, although a bit clumsier and slower than the iSis:

- Variable apertures.
- Polarizer
- Uv filter
- thick materials
- non-contact measurements
- transparent materials.

If you really, really need a very flexible instrument, then the LFP is the choice to turn to. If you want to do paper charts quickly with UV compensation, then the iSis XL is unbeatable.


Edmund
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abiggs
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2011, 05:07:12 AM »
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I have both the i1iO and iSis, and the iSis is the way to go. Easy to use and produces the best results.
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Andy Biggs
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2011, 05:38:27 AM »
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I much prefer the results I get from the costume profiles that are made for me on an iSis (by a highly experienced operator).
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2011, 06:48:43 PM »
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I have both the i1iO and iSis, and the iSis is the way to go. Easy to use and produces the best results.
I have both as well and have never liked or trusted the i1i0 although with the new i1profiler i have had more success with the table than I did with PM5  As Andy said the iSis is the only way to go unless you need to profile thick media.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2011, 07:58:24 PM »
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Lets be fair. For a user with an EyeOne Pro, the upgrade to an i0 isn’t as big a deal as an iSis and you have the ability to measure very thick and odd substrate, along with the benefits of a handheld Spectrophotometer. If you have an EyeOne Pro, want to automate the process, get an i0. If you have nothing, an iSis is a better solution for just measuring a lot of patches. But you want to profile a projector, spot measure etc? You’re SOL. So different products, and solutions. I’ve received targets that were for whatever reason, targets printed for an iSis that were incorrectly scaled. The iSis acts like a door stop! Pop that target on an i0, setup a spot measurement with the arm, walk away, you’ve got your measured data.
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Andrew Rodney
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 12:44:37 AM »
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Lets be fair. For a user with an EyeOne Pro, the upgrade to an i0 isn’t as big a deal as an iSis and you have the ability to measure very thick and odd substrate, along with the benefits of a handheld Spectrophotometer. If you have an EyeOne Pro, want to automate the process, get an i0. If you have nothing, an iSis is a better solution for just measuring a lot of patches. But you want to profile a projector, spot measure etc? You’re SOL. So different products, and solutions. I’ve received targets that were for whatever reason, targets printed for an iSis that were incorrectly scaled. The iSis acts like a door stop! Pop that target on an i0, setup a spot measurement with the arm, walk away, you’ve got your measured data.
Very good points, and if you have i1Profiler, I would agree. Maybe my years of frustration with the i1i0 and PM5 caused me to sound overly negative.

I have made 5 profiles with i1Profiler and the i1i0 table, and I'll admit it has worked very well.  It reads the targets reliably (once you increase the patch size a little), and produced what I believe are very good profiles.  Because of the mechanical technology I suppose it may not read the patches quite as accurately as in iSis, but certainly seems accurate enough.
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narikin
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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2011, 04:06:03 PM »
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Like Aaron, I too am wondering about getting an iSis, but:

How hard is it to really make a decent profile on an iSis with iProfiler for your average printer, with normal skills?  I imagine the software walks you through it pretty well, is there a lot more to learn?

I know there are good generic profiles, but it's usually better to have one made for your exact machine and inks and paper batch.  I appreciate the various experts here, who have fine-tuned things to extremely high standards, but the cost, and hassle/delay of shipping makes me think of investing in my own system rather than commissioning one profile after another  - is this a mistake or reasonable idea?

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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2011, 04:09:45 PM »
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Its not too difficult to use an iSis and i1P, of course when you know how to do something, it seems easy. The software could always be a bit more intuitive but its not a difficult process.

Unless you are going to be building a lot of profiles, I have to question the expensive of an iSis and this software.
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Andrew Rodney
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 08:37:12 PM »
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You can get a profile made with an iSis by an expert for U$D 100. I used to get some other expert with an i1Pro, but I could see the difference. I typically use one or two papers only, so for me the math is pretty easy. A profile for a paper-ink-machine combo is enough for me, meaning I don't redo the profiling after each new batch of paper or ink. The difference to the canned profile is enormous though, at least in my experience. For the Baryta Photographique, or the Platine, the manufacturer's profiles were absolutely unusable for me (there are threads on this here).
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narikin
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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 09:02:44 PM »
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You can get a profile made with an iSis by an expert for U$D 100. I used to get some other expert with an i1Pro, but I could see the difference. I typically use one or two papers only, so for me the math is pretty easy. A profile for a paper-ink-machine combo is enough for me, meaning I don't redo the profiling after each new batch of paper or ink. The difference to the canned profile is enormous though, at least in my experience. For the Baryta Photographique, or the Platine, the manufacturer's profiles were absolutely unusable for me (there are threads on this here).

Kind of agree about some Manufacturers profiles. Baryta Photographique on 11880 is utterly useless.  Epson's EEF and HPBW are great tho (thanks, Andrew..?)

You can get an iSiS + software for about $3150, so that's 31 profiles, or 25 if you count in $25 Fed Ex each time. Doesn't take long to match that - especially with a couple of machines.   And you still have a valuable iSis to sell at the end of it.

However, I am sure a color expert knows a few vital tweaks/checks a novice would not, and there's the rub. We all want 'excellent' profiles, not just 'good' or 'acceptable' ones.


« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 07:43:29 AM by snowygst » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2011, 08:37:18 AM »
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Epson's EEF and HPBW are great tho (thanks, Andrew..?)

PG didn’t make those profiles. Thank Mr. Eddie <g>.
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Andrew Rodney
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