Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Street Shots  (Read 8993 times)
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 6291



WWW
« on: July 30, 2011, 09:57:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Here are a couple from the past week. Had to crop the guy with the gun because I didn't have time to get the camera into a vertical position. The bear in the tree is no good as a serious photograph because it was at the limit of a 28-300 mounted on my old D2x -- in other words, the equivalent of 450mm, and ISO 800, which is too high on the D2x. But I thought it was interesting. According to the clerk in the motel where I stayed in Durango this week, the bear hangs out most days in this tall pine just behind the motel.
Logged

Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12213


« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2011, 12:53:50 PM »
ReplyReply

I should imagine the bear hangs there in order to avoid the guy with the gun.

Tell me that the gun is a toy; I'd hate to think of old men (or women) carrying these things around for real - dementia and all that stuff. Anyway, I thought guns were supposed to be kept at home or in the glove compartment/holster (another semantic joke?) of one's car and that licences had to be obtained in order to carry one elsewhere, or if hidden.

Frankly, too damned many of them exist in this world; I wonder how the ratio of self-defence to aggressive useage works out... guess nobody needs National Geographic in order to have the answer - all you need is a news programme.

Rob C

 
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5940


When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 02:03:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Rob, in all likelihood, it is a real gun. Many states here allow so-called "open carry", with or without a license, for better or worse.
Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12213


« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2011, 03:31:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Rob, in all likelihood, it is a real gun. Many states here allow so-called "open carry", with or without a license, for better or worse.


I'm stunned.

Rob C
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5940


When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 03:34:43 PM »
ReplyReply


I'm stunned.

Rob C

No, Rob, not a stun gun... I said "real gun"  Grin
Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
louoates
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 771



WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 03:39:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Lots of folks carry guns here in Arizona with no problems. Some carry them openly, most carry them concealed. Back when concealed carry permits were necessary there were (if memory serves me) around 90,000 concealed permits issued here.
Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5940


When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2011, 03:42:58 PM »
ReplyReply

Man carries assault rifle to Obama protest -- and it's legal

From the CNN article: "...despite the man's proximity to the president, there were no charges or arrests to be made."
Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 6291



WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2011, 04:12:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Rob, The gun's a standard military issue M1911A1, 45 caliber semi-automatic pistol. Nothing toy about it. It's a great weapon, and I always carried one when I was in a combat zone. The Air Force preferred a 38 caliber revolver, but since I was captain of a base pistol team for a while I knew better. The 45 round will knock a man down. The 38 won't necessarily.

Slobodan's right, and Colorado's an open carry state, though municipalities are allowed to prohibit open carry. (Denver is the principal offender.) Colorado also has a "shall issue" law which says that if you apply for a concealed carry permit the burden is on the state or municipality to show why your permit shouldn't be issued. We also have what certain people not well grounded in reality call the "make my day" law, which says, in effect, that if somebody tries to break into your house you can blow him away and you won't be indicted.

There's plenty of research available to show that states and municipalities that allow concealed carry have less crime than states and municipalities that don't. If you're interested I'll give you some references. My maternal grandfather was a prosecuting attorney in northern Michigan. At that time the state had a law that prevented you from carrying a firearm in your car unless it was unloaded and in the trunk. My granddad believed it would be better if every car were required to have a pump shotgun under the front seat with at least six rounds of buckshot in it. He said, "Then, if a guy who'd decided to rob the local bank looked around and saw a dozen cars on the street with people in a couple of them, he might have second thoughts." I'm convinced he was right.

Actually the bear is three mountain ranges away from the guy with the gun.
Logged

jeremypayne
Guest
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 05:52:12 PM »
ReplyReply

Russ ... There's also plenty of evidence that shows that you and your loved ones (ie children) are FAR more likely to be shot and killed if you own a gun than if you don't.

In fact, one study indicated that you were over 4 times as likely to be shot and almost 5 times as likely to be shot and killed while actually carrying gun as compared to those not packing heat.
Logged
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 6291



WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 07:09:48 PM »
ReplyReply

Jeremy, If you check you'll find that those statistics include gang wars, drug wars, etc., etc. The "children" in those studies include 18-year-old gang bangers in the inner cities. It would help if you'd give me a citation for that evidence. I'll dig up some citations for you if you want them, but at the moment I'm out of business for this evening and probably tomorrow.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 07:11:42 PM by RSL » Logged

jeremypayne
Guest
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 07:36:10 AM »
ReplyReply

Charles Branas, University of Pennsylvania, American Journal of Public Health, 2009

Supposedly the study 'controlled' for socio-economic variables.
Logged
jeremypayne
Guest
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 07:44:07 AM »
ReplyReply

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046149.htm

Another interesting study.
Logged
popnfresh
Guest
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 09:43:05 AM »
ReplyReply

The bear in the tree is no good as a serious photograph because it was at the limit of a 28-300 mounted on my old D2x -- in other words, the equivalent of 450mm, and ISO 800, which is too high on the D2x. But I thought it was interesting. According to the clerk in the motel where I stayed in Durango this week, the bear hangs out most days in this tall pine just behind the motel.
What a tank the D2X is. Built like a brick craphouse. It wasn't that long ago when it was considered the cat's pajamas. I still have mine and a couple of very good Nikon lenses, but for the last two years it's taken a back seat to my Sony a850 and Zeiss glass. But I always loved shooting with it and I may get the body modified for IR photography and start using it again.
Logged
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12213


« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 10:08:18 AM »
ReplyReply

We also have what certain people not well grounded in reality call the "make my day" law, which says, in effect, that if somebody tries to break into your house you can blow him away and you won't be indicted.




Now that's something I believe is a fundamental right. An Englishman's home might well be his castle, but don't imagine they feel any less strongly up north!

But that doesn't mean the freedom to carry killing machines outside in public, and let's face it, that's all they are meant to be.

As for a row of passing cars stopping to foil a raid - I think that they would just take out the 'man in the street' as well as the 'innocent bystander', to say nothing of each other. I suspect the guys in the balaclavas or ski gear would probably have sub-machine guns; I'm sure they will have studied all the movies! Heavens, think of the damage to property and cars! Would the insurance companies be happy to pay out for heroes? Where would it end?

;-)

Rob C
Logged

Riaan van Wyk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 682



WWW
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2011, 01:02:48 PM »
ReplyReply

Hello Russ, I wish I could comment on the photo(s) but for the life of me I just don't get "street photography." I've really tried but I guess it's in the same category as being a red or white wine afficionado or whatever similar scenario one can sketch, where preference rules. If it makes me less of a photographer so be it, one can't pretend.

If you don't mind me adding a word or two about the "carry" discussion as depicted in your photo though. My country has "concealed carry" laws, whereby only the armed forces are allowed to publicly display firearms. Civilians have to conceal and are liable to lose their licences if caught doing otherwise. So, for me, a man on a public bench playing with his dog, pistol hanging on his side is weird to see. He would be called "Rambo" here and would probably have his gun taken from him at some stage.

Owning a firearm and publicly brandishing it does not make you proficient in it's use, as Jeff Cooper once commented- Owning a violin does not make you a musician. But, countries and mindsets differ.
Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5940


When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2011, 01:24:26 PM »
ReplyReply

... My granddad believed it would be better if every car were required to have a pump shotgun under the front seat with at least six rounds of buckshot in it. He said, "Then, if a guy who'd decided to rob the local bank looked around and saw a dozen cars on the street with people in a couple of them, he might have second thoughts." I'm convinced he was right...

Hmm... if only we could conduct a social experiment, where everyone would be allowed to carry guns (and would exercise that right), and see how that would affect, say, bank robberies.

Wait!... Didn't we already have it? Wild West? Cowboys and sheriffs? Apparently, did not prevent bank robberies and many other crimes at the time.
Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 6291



WWW
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2011, 02:17:31 PM »
ReplyReply

Slobodan, You're thinking of the late twenties and Bonny and Clyde. In the "wild west" cowboys carried guns to put down varmints of various kinds that threatened their cattle. When a gang robbed a bank there usually was no sheriff in the town, but a marshall would come from a two or three day ride away. Once the marshall got there he'd usually round up a posse of cowboys (with their guns) and go after the malefactors, who always were easily identified but often almost impossible to catch.

Riaan, It bothers me to see civilians carrying guns openly too. What really works is the fact that in a jurisdiction with "shall issue" laws, criminals don't know who is and who isn't carrying a gun. About a decade ago we had a neighbor lady who was quite old and quite crippled, but who loved to go to gatherings of her friends of an evening. One night she was hobbling her way back to her car when a young guy came out of an alley toward her. She stopped, zipped open her purse and reached inside. The guy turned on his heel and ran. He was lucky. She had a permit and a gun and knew how to use it. Knowing her I have no doubt she'd have offed him. When I was mayor there was a guy on my council -- also a vet -- who was downtown in Colorado Springs one evening when a guy threatened him with a knife and tried to rob him. Bill whipped out his concealed pistol and blew the guy away. Incidents like these make criminals in our area a lot more cautious and contemplative.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 08:20:15 PM by RSL » Logged

tom b
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 869


WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2011, 03:36:56 PM »
ReplyReply

Russ, given the old guy's age the most likely thing he will do with his gun is to commit suicide. Find out more here.

Cheers,
Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 6291



WWW
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2011, 05:08:27 PM »
ReplyReply


Jeremy, I've read the citation and I find myself underwhelmed. Even if the statistics CDC used are accurate, there are a number of problems with jumping to the conclusion that firearms themselves are the cause of the results. The first problem is that the sample is immense and the number of children involved in firearm deaths is miniscule. Another problem is that in general the study deals with "firearm related deaths," not murders. It lumps together suicides, accidental firearm deaths, and murders. Unless I'm mistaken it's murders we're concerned with. A kid who's set on suicide doesn't need a gun, though a gun's convenient if it happens to be there. Accidental deaths are, well, accidental. That kind of death can be produced with a gun, but it can be produced with a car, a mountain, football, contaminated food, etc., etc. Finally, we get to homicide. The study states: "Of the homicides, 1464 (73%) occurred among U.S. children." First, that's an extremely small number relative to the population sample, and second, it doesn't differentiate between age groups. As I said earlier, it includes 18-year-olds in drug wars, inner-city gang bangers, and drive-by shootings in downtown Detroit where a kid in bed happens to get hit.

The real question is: how many kids are killed by guns in the hands of people who legitimately hold the guns? In other words, in a locale like my own, where many people carry legitimate concealed weapons, is the serious crime rate, including murder, rape, etc., higher or lower than in places like New York City where only criminals are allowed to have guns?

One citation I was going to give you was John Lott's More Guns, Less Crime, but there have been enough attacks on that book that I'm sure you'd immediately come back with one of them. Instead, I'm going to give you a reference to a Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States#cite_note-CHE-87. As "Rhossydd" pointed out in another thread, people can use Wikipedia to suggest their personal opinions are facts, but this article includes hard citations for each statement. The best summary of the article I can come up with is a paragraph from the article: "In reporting on Lott's original analysis The Chronicle of Higher Education has said that although his findings are controversial Mr. Lott's research has convinced his peers of at least one point: No scholars now claim that legalizing concealed weapons causes a major increase in crime." I personally think legalizing concealed weapons causes a noticeable, if not major decrease in crime, but I can't prove it.

Since I live in Colorado I can't help but think about the Columbine massacre and wonder what would have happened if that teacher who held the door while his kids got out and then was killed had been armed. Had he been carrying, that'd have been the end of the massacre. The same thing's true in the other school and college massacres we've had these past few years. I've come to believe that high school teachers and college professors should be required to go through the same kind of handgun training I went through in the Air Force and be required to carry a gun at all times in the classroom. I think that'd bring the school massacres to a screeching halt!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 05:18:52 PM by RSL » Logged

RSL
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 6291



WWW
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2011, 05:16:40 PM »
ReplyReply

What a tank the D2X is. Built like a brick craphouse. It wasn't that long ago when it was considered the cat's pajamas. I still have mine and a couple of very good Nikon lenses, but for the last two years it's taken a back seat to my Sony a850 and Zeiss glass. But I always loved shooting with it and I may get the body modified for IR photography and start using it again.

Pop, Apparently you did the same thing I did when I bought my D3: you hung on to your D2X. At first I thought I'd sell it, but I realized that with the huge jump in capabilities of the D3 I wouldn't get much for the D2X, and it'd make a pretty good backup. Nowadays when I drive cross-country I hang my Nikkor 24-70mm and L bracket on the D3 so I can use it on a tripod, and then put the 28-300 with VR on the D2X. That gives me an overall zoom range from 24mm to 450mm without changing lenses. The D2X image isn't great at full extension, but at least it gets the gist of the subject -- like the bear.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad